Patrons are wonderful and site-supporting people and voted British publisher The Grinning Frog into the Spotlight this month.
You can see the current candidates or vote if you’re a member on Spotlight’s portal page.
I know The Grinning Frog from The Oracle magazine, DriveThruRPG lists the company’s hottest seller as 10 Tips for Roleplaying Villains, and we read about plenty of other games in this interview.
We’re lucky enough to talk to the Frog’s Chief Wordsmith in this piece, Stephen Hart, talk zombies versus horror, battle with logistics, and have some breaking news on future developments.
The Grinning Frog interview
Start at the start, I always say! Readers will be all too familiar with and likely looking forward to me finding a new opening. Okay, how about this; let’s begin at the beginning.
Who are The Grinning Frog?
Stephen Hart, Chief Wordsmith; Ryan Falkingham, Creative Assistant and Logistics; Jane Spencer, Editor; and Benjamin Hart, Creative Development Assistant (he’s occasional/project case by case)
Where did the name come from?
I’m not sure I’ve ever told anyone… let’s just say it was from within my longest running campaign world and was a quicky fit for the business I had planned.
What have you learned on the way?
Too much to say in one paragraph! Picking a few things, in case anyone else is planning to write game content for a living:
1) It’s important to stay fresh creatively and that means both ensuring that you make time to game, to read and to watch films/TV shows. You can be creative in a vaccuum but you are more creative when surrounded by creative content from others.
2) An average week is over 60 hours of work, and expect to be working at least a little every day.
3) Be open to all feedback but choose who you show your newest or sketchiest idea to. There’s an old saying that goes ‘When you meet a master swordsman, show him your sword. When you meet a man who is not a poet, do not show him your poem.’ That’s very wise as it takes someone who is a gamer, or a creative to understand and properly feedback on ideas. Especially when they are raw and unformed. 4) A professional editor (i.e. someone who is a qualified and experienced editor) is the most important assett you can add to your team. Don’t publish without a professional editor. Anyone can ‘edit’ but only a professional will do it on the level that you really want – I could really go on about that for a bit if I wanted. I feel it very strongly.
What do you think you’re best known for, and what would you like to be known for?
Am I known for anything specifically? I think within the circle of repeat customers and backers I’m known to produce books and games with high production values, both with content and format/design. I try to move across lots of content types, RPG adventure one month, solo play game the next, pocket game after that, book on Games Master tips and always in the background my monthly magazine The Oracle.
I’ve tried to avoid being a one trick pony – partly because I believe that pushes an individual (me) to be more creative and every new project type teaches you some new tricks that you can then go back and apply when you write the next RPG adventure, even if learnt whilst writing a sci-fi game; for example.
What would I like to be known for? I’m pretty happy for the above although I do wish The Oracle had a higher profile generally. As far as I know, and I might be wrong, it is the only printed monthly RPG magazine in the world. Now we’ve produced 36 monthly issues, plus several specials, I’d love it to be better known. That it isn’t is also entirely my fault and lack of advertising. It turns out you can only do so much regardless of the hours you work!
What makes a good RPG?
As an introductory question, I typically ask publishers their definition of a good product. We might disagree, but if we know what a creator hopes to create, we have a baseline to review their work.
As it turns out, this was a profound question for our wordsmith to tackle and so worthy of a section of its own here.
What makes a good game, in your opinion?
Oh right, so you are going to ask difficult questions. Cue deep introspective sigh… the challenge with the question is that different people want different things from a game.
My wife is a good example. She loves games, but prefers simple ones that have very few steps, and are super quick to learn. She’s a smart woman, but she wants her games to be straight forward and fast to play. She also utterly dislikes roleplay games. (Yes, I know!) Whilst my eldest son enjoys detailed, complex wargames, by youngest son wants a game he can learn whilst playing (he doesn’t do rulebooks) and my preferences are different again.
As such, ‘what makes a good game’ is subjective and could even be argued that any game is a good game as long as people are having fun. And whilst it might seem I’m trying to avoid the question, the reality is that your question, in some ways, is the starting point for game design. You have to ask yourself ‘what are you trying to achieve’, what sort of ‘good’ game are you trying to produce.
In Issue 36 of The Oracle, to celebrate that it was the anniversary issue, there were two games in the issue.
One was a lizard race game where you rolled the dice, move the lizard forward and there are obstacles that move you back, or forwards, along the track. Think ‘snakes and ladders’. That’s simple, basic and you know what, fun!
The other game was an in-game game that RPG players could play either as part of their session or between sessions etc. It involves rolling dice so they stop on certain locations on the rolling mat (which was the back of the magazine). There are two scoring versions depending on the complexity required. Again, simple and fun.
I only had half a page to produce rules for the dice rolling game so it had to be simple. It works, it is adaptable and it can be competitive when you play with people who like to win! It also involves rolling polydice accurately, which is harder than it seems but gives people an excuse to do something that they like. If you can get that into a game, then you are hitting a high point – at least so I believe.
When it comes to games, having developed many over the years, a lot of which were never seen outside the confines of my family circle, I realised that all I can do, is design the best game that I can, based on what I think works: Make it quick to play, straightforward (for an average gamer who plays these sorts of games), ensure the game has some depth i.e. strategy or player agency and story flavour. The last is really important.
I want people playing one of my zombie games, to be thinking and feeling what its like to be in a zombie apocalypse, or with the new game where you are an astronaut, scavenging derelict spaceships for a living (Starship Scavengers, on Kickstarter now) I want people to feel like they are in that role.
Fundamentally, I want people going ‘Oh god, do I have enough air and energy to search this room, but I need to find some ammo – aargh what do I do?’ That’s a good game.
For example, I’m still ribbing my wife over abandoning the man in the wheelchair to the zombies in Zilight Seattle. She fled to save her character, dooming him and as it turned out, dying the next turn herself. (Karma?) My wife is a lovely human being and to leave someone like that went against her very being. So now I can dig her in the ribs about it from time to time. Again, for me, that’s the best outcome from a game – creating story moments that resonate.
Could you tell us about your game systems and how they were developed?
I’ve spent all my life playing wargames, and then RPGs from the age of 11. I created my own rule systems for fun when I was a child so I could use the mish-mash of figures and tanks that I had.
I never expected that playing and tinkering to be relevant for work! I was just having fun.
I like rules that are based on realism, but without the pain of matching actual reality. Tabletop games are only ever going to be a broad simulation of reality, and its okay to accept that. My games ideas will start often as a one line idea – for example, I saw a picture by the great fantasy artist Dean Spencer which made me think about a character stuck underground, after a party wipe. They come around, everyone else is dead, their body has been ransacked and they have no supplies or weapons – what happens next? I wrote that down in my notebook, and let the idea play around in my head.
About two weeks later, I woke up at 4am thinking about it and realised that the Zilight game engine would work perfectly and got up, went downstairs, and after making a coffee, drafted out the game. That will become Final Quest, and has actually grown into a trilogy of games that will link together. I’ve not worked out the linking mechanics yet, those are still to be decided, but the notion of character advancements across the trilogy then fed into Starship Scavengers which now has a complete character generation system, and advancement so in effect, it’s a mini-RPG system.
When I go back to Final Quest, I will likely consider moving over the system from Starship Scavengers. Effectively, there is cross-pollination between projects. One of the reasons I advocate working on different types of projects, and in different genres.
At the heart of Zilight are the day cards. Effectively, you use a normal deck of cards, turn over one, and that shows you what happens that game day. Depending on the day, you might draw further cards and I always try to ensure there is a risk/reward system in my games. Game decisions are fun when they are meaningful. The card mechanic makes for great replayability, but for Starship Scavengers, where I want a deeper, more detailed experience as the player explores the derelict starship, I swapped it out for a location mechanic. Move to a location, and then some aspects of the location are fixed, but the rewards, and dangers to some degree, are randomly generated, either in response to the characters actions or the game rules.
It’s good to try to evolve your games. Of the three Zilight games, Zilight Original is the most straight forward, Zilight Seattle added in new rules, as did Zilight Dark Ages. By ensuring that the new aspect as evolutions of the previous versions, and grow out of the theme of the game, it can add real depth for the player.
So I believe at least, and the feedback is very good for the Zilight range I have to say.
RPG hobby trends
The Grinning Frog seems to be unstoppable, or, at the very least, they’re a prolific publisher. The Oracle has had many Kickstarter campaigns. Is Stephen following the pulse of the hobby closely or drawing on natural instinct or persistance?
Solo tabletop RPGs are slowly but persistently getting more popular even though we’re through the pandemic. Why do you think that is?
I think they have always been a thing. Look at Tunnels and Trolls back in the 1980’s, or the Fighting Fantasy books. It has always been hard to get people together to play ‘proper’ RPG games.
I put proper in quotes there because I think there has been a stigma about playing solo games. Which is ironic really when you consider a lot of people, especially in the early years of the hobby, used to make fun of geeky RPG games as having no friends. Yet within the hobby, solo playing has been looked down upon.
What might have changed is that as the original general of gamers have aged, they have become more accepting of their own decisions and armoured against any lasting stigma of solo gaming.
The pandemic and the lockdowns also made it a requirement, and I think, just as the pandemic has resulting in lasting changes in the business world, I think it has shown that being at home and gaming yourself, is perfectly good fun and just another way to enjoy the hobby.
Another trend is horror – especially zombies. Have you noticed that? Or do you think high fantasy is unshakable in the long run, and so where The Grinning Frog will focus efforts?
I don’t like the horror genre myself personally. (I’m not a fan of gore.) I think that certain genres have an upswing periodically and horror is on an up, certainly in terms of the cinema at the moment. I wouldn’t put my work in the horror genre, the three zombie games are literally that – zombie apocalyse games.
I have always loved end of the world books and films. It’s one of my favourite genres as it provides you with the ‘what if’ thinking regarding how to survive etc. That’s what I tried to bottle and put into Zilight. When you draw that location card, do you ignore it and walk on, explore briefly, or thoroughly? Each of those choices carrying different levels of risk.The ‘what if’ thinking gamified.
As for our focus going forward, there are really three main legs to the business at the moment – The Oracle, monthly RPG magazine, solo play game books such as Zilight and the new Starship Scavengers and RPG books and adventure – we just released Vastral’s Guide to Magical Oddities 3 and there are only two copies left from the initial print run!
My intention is to continue to service those three areas and keep producing new content across them.
Are there any plans for a 3rd birthday for The Oracle?
Well, coincidentally, Ryan went on a family holiday for three months just as the anniversary happened so ironically not only isn’t he here right now, but his contribution for the anniversary issue of The Oracle was less than has been usual recently!
I did buy lunch for everyone and put in the aforementioned games into the issue so everyone could have some fun with the issue. Other than that, we are way too busy to be doing anything else! (Okay, I did buy some old gaming magazines and a couple of new Displate pictures for the walls.)
Life as The Grinning Frog
I had heard that Stephen once spent hours and dozens of calls tracking down a missing parcel that was a few minutes up the road from him. As a result, I cheekily asked about logistics…
Team Geek Native often hear that logistics and paperwork can be some of the most challenging tasks for indie game studios. Have you ever had any such encounters with couriers?
It is a horrendous part of the job. As soon as I’m finished with this Q&A, I have 37 parcels to send out to six different countries. I’m just wishing there were more questions and I could spend longer replying!
That said, I would like to speak up though on behalf of the couriers and the general post office. They do a magnificent job, and yes, we all have stories of items getting stomped or battered in the post, but those are the exceptions.
Consider that I can, sitting in my office outside of York can send a book thousands of miles west to the USA and all for £10-£15? It isn’t bad really. I will say, investing money on decent packaging helps and Ryan swears blind that the label printer is the single best thing I’ve bought for the office.
What’s next for The Grinning Frog?
More of the same. Consider that we just released (since Christmas) Neo City, a cyberpunk location book, two new pocket games, two Zilight zombie apocalypse games, two RPG books (one NPCs, one magic items) and we currently have a sci-fi solo adventure at Kickstarter, we are always producing a broad range of material.
We have started producing more A5 (digest) sized works and that is something we will be continuing. They are easier to post, and have proven very popular. We do also have some specific items in draft format: Hal and Roger’s Creature Compendium 2 (the original was ENNIE nominated), Final Quest, a solo play fantasy survival game, a collection of Flora, Fauna and Funga, being published now on Kickstarter under our brand imprint The Arcane Muse, and of course the further issues of The Oracle.
Oh and just possible, we are launching a new quarterly magazine for sci-fi and cyberpunk… that’s breaking news!
The Grinning Frog
- The Grinning Frog’s website.
- The Grinning Frog on DriveThruRPG.
- The Grinning Frog on Instagram.
- The Grinning Frog on Twitter.
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