Artist Michael Lee Lunsford stresses that the goal of his redesign project is not to push some sort of moral code on to you. He says it’s an exercise in character design – do these superheroes feel the same to you even though their costumes are different?
I take Mike’s point… he’s not pushing a moral code on to me. That said; it’s hard not to take a lesson from this collection.
Fully dressed Supergirl
Fully dressed Powergirl
Fully dressed Wonder Woman
Fully dressed Black Canary
Fully dressed Zatanna
Fully dressed Elektra
Fully dressed Psylocke
Fully dressed Vampirella
Fellow geek? An easy way to keep up with the blog is to tune in on Facebook, Twitter or just scan for new picture finds at the site’s Pinterest collection.
While the pictures are good and the redesigns are good, I have to admit that fully clothing Vampirella removes all purpose from the character altogether. Also, what’s wrong with bare arms for god’s sake? Nobody feels the need to cover Wolverine’s exaggerated, almost fetishized biceps. Good thing it’s not the redesign companies would actually use.
Before you ask – I’m a woman and I like my comic book heroines half-dressed.
Fair points – makes me wonder what “the purpose” of Vampirella is though. To titillate? To be a horror hostess? I’m fairly certain the Vampirella above could seduce or slay whoever she wished.
More skin coverage equals better protection, including one’s arms. And give that the artist is trying to make a statement (look how cool these characters look, even with only their faces showing), it makes sense that he’d choose to cover their arms. I don’t think it’s an indication that he disapproves of arms being on display. :-)
There is an actual reason for Supergirl and Power Girl’s costumes. They are powered by the sun, and the more exposed skin, the faster they heal and the stronger they are. While i get the whole “Lets not objectify woman,” angle and i love that Wonder Woman has armour, you have to applaud the logic behind the Kryptonian costumes. The real question is, why doesn’t Super Man show more skin?
Well, if comic book heroines looked like that, I might actually read some comics.
riiiiiight, and superman/boy do not have big holes in their costumes exposing their chests because…?
Leaving aside the work itself, the moral lesson suggested by the article is just silly. Sure, characters like Psylocke could arguably stand some more clothes, and Vampi is supposed to be more porn than character. For the rest, though, male heroes wear just as little, to the outrage of precisely no one.
The opening line of the post and the point made by the artist is that there’s not supposed to be a moral lesson here. I think the moral debate is inevitable and one of the reasons why the post happened (but also to see whether these characters could retain their iconic appearance in a radically different costume) but it’s important to underline the “No Moral Lesson” disclaimer.
I think that the drawings work well. I think that the brown and relaxed look of Wonder Woman’s pants could use a redux – maybe even her boots. She just looks ‘frumpy’ and I don’t like super heroes looking ‘frumpy’.
I, however, do not go with the idea of ‘more protection’ as people such as powergirl don’t need it and the others I don’t believe are wearing ballistic cloth armor. I could be wrong though. My thought about scantily clad women of action was using their sexuality a bit as a weapon/defense. Have someone take a second or two to check out those gams, and that’s a hesitation that the heroines can use to their advantage.
There’s a lot of psychological and societal reactions towards scantily clad women that they could use to their advantage in saving the world. It may be sexist to think that way, but if my life was in danger and flashing a little thigh would give me a better chance of survival, I’d wear a thong in a heartbeat.
Why does this apply only to females when it is equally true of males?
There are male heroes who wear just as little (although the reason is generally different–the Hulk is not sexy) and there are female heroes who wear more.
What’s the tendency, though? It’s not the individual that means anything, it’s the trends.
If that was true they would have exposed arms.
… So you didn’t read the last sentence of the guy you’re responding to huh?
Thing is, though the artist doesn’t want to come across as a nanny, the no moral lesson disclaimer doesn’t really fly. It’s clearly an exercise at de-sexifying female superheroes which in and of itself is fine, but at least own it.
I mean, if its just an attempt to find out of characters remain iconic in different costumes, why not also draw a set of male superheroes wearing bandanas??
great…now make me a sandwich
what the f? I’m a straight guy and I’d actually PREFER if they would be drawn like this? there must be something awfully wrong with me?
I’m looking forward to the fully dressed Namor, Thing, Silver Surfer, Conan, Hulk….
(But I do like these designs a lot, and I always thought Power Girl’s name and boob window were both stupid.)
Without knowing anything about Vampirella (apart from what she looks like), I like the “fully clothed” design. It nicely evokes the Victorian roots of vampire lore, and kind of reminds me of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen’s version of Mina Harker.
How is it “de-sexifying” when I find the outfits here of Supergirl, Powergirl, and Zatana exceptionally sexy? Wonder Woman I’m much less enamoured with, but that comes down to design decisions more than it is about what is “exposed”.
Strong, independent women are sexy in their own right; keep the lingerie for the bedroom.
I think there’s a difference between de-sexifying and de-titillating.
Personally, how “sexy” a woman is doesn’t depend on how much she is(n’t) wearing. “Sexy” is more of an attitude and can be incredibly subjective. I’d also argue style can enhance what is sexy, even when there’s more clothing. (For example, I think that drawing of Zatanna is pretty damn sexy.
Titillation, on the other hand, is entirely about the state of undress, and I would argue takes less effort than being “sexy.”
That’s nice in principle… I’d have done a few differently (pants under skirt is just silly, either give her regular pants, or thick stockings and a skirt). Also it should be noted that Wonder Woman, Black Canary, and Zatanna have been depicted fully dressed on many occasions; for some readers that’s still Z’s most iconic outfit, and while Kingdom Come’s armoured WW doesn’t come up quite as often, I read it’s still a huge toy seller to this day.
I love Electra, Black Canary, and Psylocke here – beautiful work! Not loving the PG outfit because it kind of looks like a lab coat to me – but her attitude is pretty great, on the other hand, and the gloves. (Mad Scientist PG?)
Some look more heroic, some less. Zatanna looks like she’s on her way to a business meeting in 1874, for example. But Electra looks fine, and I think Powergirl looks *more* heroic. To me, anyway. But I was raised by a feminist. :)
Hmm. Zatanna looks quite a bit awkward. Like she shrunk or something.
I want Black Canary’s pants! Just. So. Awesome!
Nothing wrong with you at all!
The only one I don’t like here is Zatanna’s pants — Not a fan of “piano legs”, mostly. The outfit could be improved with just showing another three inches of boot.
Fully dressed Vampirella? Are you real?!
There should be a drinking game – take a shot any time someone makes the male/female false equivalency in a discussion about how much female comic book characters wear.
I love these costumes! They seem to say so much more about the character’s style, interests, culture, etc.
*Ahem* Though we’re a minority, there are some of us who find the Hulk VERY sexy.
I love the idea. My only problem is Why are most of the costumes baggy? The male superheroes almost all have skin tight outfits. Why not across the board? Most of these designs are awesome though. I am gonna mark this page to see if my wife would like to cosplay any of these outfits. You notice no Batgirl because she’s always been fully dressed. Further proof the Batman family is the best set of heroes
I don’t mind the costumes from Zatanna down. But why must everything be so horribly unfashionable. There’s nothing wrong with covering up a bit but it doesn’t have to be so unfashionable. There’s also nothing wrong with showing skin. These women are very confident and powerful. If they want to wear as little clothing as possible, why not!?
I love the looks of these. I may actually read comics if they dressed the women like this. A lot of these outfits could be adapted by fashion-loving fans into everyday wear as well.
It is not equally true of males: The psychological and societal reactions towards scantily clad men is completely different, and not likely to be used to any advantage.
I think they look great and I think it is cool to focus on the character of a heroine instead of just her skin.
Bizarre…
Give the girls some biceps FGS! & – really- what is *wrong* with bare arms & bare legs?
I like these. Much more appealing than what you normally see. Thanks to the artist!
Honestly, being Greek, Wonder Woman should be wearing a toga, not a bustier and bikini. As for the rest of them, gotta say I’m liking them.
I love them!!
Some
of these re-designs actually make me want to look into the characters,
to read their stories and find out who they are. I find them engaging
and interesting and their poses and costumes reflect a depth of
character that arouses my curiosity and catches my attention.
That, of course, makes me want to make their costumes too, since I choose my cosplay based on how well I can relate to a particular character. Plus, they all look way more comfortable (and warmer!) than the costumes I’ve made so far, so I might actually be able to wander around a sci-fi con all day in them, instead of hiding under a cloak to keep from shivering and having to change after only a couple of hours because of the discomfort of the metal and rubber and spandex costume elements!
I actually like some of these more than their actual character designs. They look comfortable and more functional. The whole fighting in skin tight panties with everything popping out doesn’t appeal to me at all. It’s one of the things that makes comics less appealing to me.
Right on, brother!
Supergirl looks more like Dr. Strange’s Apprentice like that so, I would just make some alterations there. I like Elektra’s new look. Psylocke’s outfit should take more cues from Elektra’s. And Zatanna’s outfit wasn’t in need of a change to begin with. She is supposed to look that way. Her outfit was designed to make her look like a Magician’s Assistant.
The issue with bare arms and legs is that with the exceptions of Supergirl and Power-Girl, nobody up there is invulnerable. Granted, clothes don’t offer much in the way of protection but, the illusion of protection is still there.
I would have gone with a different colour of leggings for WW and a longer jacket for Canary.
I understand the concept of “fully dressed’ heroines but shouldn’t the outfits actually fit? Why are they so baggy and ill-fitting? Step your game up!
LOVING IT.
That’s all I have to say. Although I don’t know about Vampirella… not in the “your-whole-thing-is-the-boob-showing”, but maybe because people in Eastern Europe uses different clothing, me thinks. Just an observation.
All in all, Black Canary and Wonderwoman are my faves. Seeing Power Girl like that is surely going to make someone have a seizure.
And I’m ok with it. :)
Oh? If the only point and purpose is to distract for a few seconds, you think an exposed male body wouldn’t do that? Sure, it wouldn’t distract with the thought of “bow chicka bow wow” but it would DISTRACT, and that’s the core argument, isn’t it? So why not have some assless chaps on a guy, if you think distraction works so much better than punching?
I’ll grant you that the reactions are different, but I’ll dispute that they couldn’t be used to any combat advantage. Making a villain flinch away from the perfectly sculpted crotch piece protecting and visibly outlining one’s package could be just as useful as getting them to turn their head to an outfit that that screams “just barely not nude woman here”.
I wish someone could and would—if you were made into a sandwich, you’d be more use to the world than you are currently.
Zatana has never been a magician’s assistant, she has always been a magician. The fact that you made this mistake is I think evidence of how poor her previous costume actually was.
All of the characters up there have extremely intriguing stories. My favorite would have to be Psylocke. English born mutant Betsy Braddock loses her memory and is transformed into a kunoichi. The rest of her story is filled with suspense and intrigue as she tries to reassemble her past, memory by memory.
Vampirella isn’t supposed to be Eastern European though. She is Cleopatra in one telling.
It’s practical for winter ^_-
Reminds me of a few illos I saw last year showing what male heroes would look like if artists posed them the same way they do female heroes… more reasons why the genre has always been dominated by young male readers.
But, would publishers like DC ever consider such moves?
I find it really sad that you wouldn’t want to look into a character just because of what they’re wearing. A lot of the characters up there have awesome stories and it’s so judgmental to think it’s not worth it to read about them based off of the superficial. It’s the equivalent of seeing a gorgeous girl and automatically assuming she’s stupid.
This was one artist’s crack at such a design ethic… and KUDOS to him! I’d be interesting to see what other artists come up with and whether such a move could lead toward greater involvement in mainstream comics by female fans and creators. Heck, it’s 2013, maybe the time has come to view superheroines as something more than pinup dolls.
I don’t like these designs. The artist is definitely really skilled, I like the style and such but I don’t like most of the clothing choices. I certainly advocate for fully dressed superheroines but to me a lot of these designs are either impractical, less than heroic or just really clash. Parts of them work. Like the Wonder Woman is the worst offender. For Powergirl I’d argue the pants need to be either a lighter blue or just white. Psylocke, Elektra and Zatanna are the best ones here. Though for Zatanna I don’t like how loose the pants are which is my gripe here. I don’t mean the clothes have to be skintight but the pants just seem too loose to me. Vampirella’s is also great and doesn’t have many of the design issues the others have but seems too casual. The only thing I’d comment on is that Vampirella is at her core a titillation character as I don’t think a sane person would argue a one piece bikini is a necessary costume. So yeah….
making the clothes baggy hides muscles and physical prowness. that actually leaves more room to question
Wonder Women is my girl from way back. I am not convinced about the color of her slacks, but I love the overall look.
Zatanna, Vampirella, Psylocke, and Elektra are Hawt!!
“So why not have some assless chaps on a guy, if you think distraction works so much better than punching?”
I love you.
Amazing job! There’s also this one, which is women in fantasy wearing reasonable armour, and also awesome: http://womenfighters.tumblr.com/
I think we should make a distinction between “fully dressed” and “entirely covered.” They are not the same thing.
I never thought turning comic heroines into conservative, fully dressed females would be this sexy. What about the guys?
I agree. But I would say that honestly, from a functional standpoint, superheroes (male or female) should wear skin tight or close to skin tight clothing. Anything that will easily snag or be grabbed is a horrible idea if you’re a super charged do-gooder. The Incredibles got it right. Capes are dangerous. But so are baggy pants. I’d hate to see Wonder Woman or SuperGirl get mowed down because all there excess material got stuck on a branch. It would be very sad. And extremely anti-climatic.
Actually all those characters (except the Surfer) have had full clothing at some point in their history.
Zatanna should have a word with her tailor. Those trousers are far too long, trailing on the ground like that. Little shorter, little closer to the leg. Otherwise, these are awesome.
I think he’s trying to emphasize that fully dressed isn’t an excuse for skin tight clothes.
a couple of these look ok (psylocke and elektra) but most of them just look dumb!
Females are sexual beings too, and I would probably be distracted if Batman came at me wearing a nice pair of boxer briefs. <.< Women fawn all over Superman and Spiderman when they're in costume already.
Even the male costumes are skin tight spandex. So why make these so frumpy?
While they might all be very cute, demographic numbers show that young men and boys buy more comics when the cover shows a heroin with big boobs and lots of cleavage. Yes yes, we all want to believe it isn’t true, but Victoria secret and sports illustrated haven’t moved on to selling magazines with size 22 women yet or much less girls in one piece bathing suits covering everything. Again not knocking this, I’d love for it to be true, but it just doesn’t sell. The truth sucks.
Thanks for this. I love admiring sexy ladies as much as the next person, but the constant nakedness of pretty much every female superhero out there can get not only tedious, but a bit insulting.
It’s a shame that you’d let something as superficial as what a woman chooses to wear stop you from reading very engaging and well crafted stories.
i like most of the designs… with Zatanna being my fav…but Vampirella doesn’t do it for me…
They aren’t baggy or ill-fitting; that’s how normal clothes look on women, at least those who do not go about daily wearing skin-tight apparel.
Honestly, that’s taking out half the fun of hero comic books :P
I’m going to take this as terrific sarcasm, because the stories are not very engaging and not very well crafted, most of the time.
I don’t see any baggy clothes there at all. Just not skin-tight. They look like they fit just as well as what most people would wear, including police officers.
PURE AWESOMENESS!!!
It’s almost like authors need to ATTRACT female readers by providing elements that are appealing to them, rather than projecting an attitude of “shut up, stop complaining, and take what you get, lowly women!”
Chiton. Romans wore togas. And, later on, only Roman males. And a toga is the most impractical fighting garment, ever, it being over 7 yards of fabric, artfully draped around the body, with an absolute demand for the left-hand to hold it in place.
Is it just me, or does Wonder Woman’s pants/leggings look odd? Everybody else looks at least fine to me, and her upper body and boots look great, just the pants just don’t seem to work with the rest of the outfit.
Because “they” don’t want to, “they” are being drawn that way by male artists at the direction of male editors/publishers to cater to male fans.
Some women in the real world do wear pants under short skirts or dresses and it looks just fine. It’s more practical than thick stockings because even the thickest of stockings (which cost almost as much of a pair of pants anymore, by the way) would tear or provide little protection/warmth in the real world.
We don’t have to forgo fashion for practicality if we don’t want to :)
Has no one yet brought up that Psylocke already currently HAS a new costume that pretty much shows only her face? Same with Black Canary
And why in the world would you put brown slacks on Wonder Woman? I think that next time they should have female (or gay lol) cartoonists draw fully clothe heroines. Now I understand why male cartoonist draw them semi-naked. They don’t have the fashion sense to draw them fully clothed xD
Maybe the point is to make the characters more practical and relatable, not less sexy? I agree with Craig: These outfits are actually sexier to me!
If you aren’t old enough to know how to even make a sandwich, then you should not be on the Internet, little boy. Log off your mommy’s account NOW!
I like wonder woman’s redesign well enough, but those pants completely blow her aesthetic. The color. The sag. the fit. the lack of additional armor. no thank you.
Guys recoil from another guy’s genitalia a lot faster than they turn towards a naked woman.
I’m looking at these and thinking “Now these are superhero costumes I could wear and be comfortable in at a convention!”
Fashion is in the eye of the beholder. With the exception of perhaps SuperGirl (and maybe Wonder Woman’s pants), I found these to be quite fashionable. But then again I’m a fan of anachronisms :)
Comics are the only books you really should judge by the cover; you know what you’re getting by what’s on the front. Hence, too many women are too insulted to read them, no matter how many *others* find the stories “very engaging & well crafted”
I am a female reader. I’m attracted to comic books based on the story. Women don’t need a hand out from any publisher trying to extend an olive branch by putting female characters in ridiculously over thought sacks of an outfit. I’ve never felt like I was being told to “take what I get”. And I don’t think comics books are lacking in appealing elements for females. I don’t care what my heroine wears. I care what she does and what she says.
of course I know women do that IRL. That’s my point: no, it does *not* look just fine, it looks completely ridiculous. Stockings under skirt = ok.
And providing protection is entirely irrelevant in Supergirl’s case… there are no pants in the world resistant enough for the sort of abuse she’d put them through, so either her powers protect it as was the canon in the 80s/90s, and stockings are ok, or they don’t and no pants would be safe either.
Although my argument against pants-with-skirt might be moot if that’s a thing with current-day teenagers, since that seems to be what her costume is going for. Although those wrists are like mid-00s…
Fully-dressed doesn’t mean that every inch of skin has to be covered, just that the woman isnt sexualized by what she’s wearing. Some of the costumes look like the heroine is bundling up for winter-weather and seem a little frumpy, specifically Wonder Woman and Super Girl. Super Girl looks like she’s wearing pajamas, and the molded golden belt and khakis on WW makes her look mannish.
That said, these are still very nice pics, and Zatanna’s 3 piece suit is my favorite, with Vampirella coming in second.
I love it!
I wish more superheroine costumes would be like this. Psylocke’s current uniform in Uncanny X-Force is a tremendous step in the right direction.
Wow, they look lovely! And Zatanna’s outfit – ohmygods, she is adorable.
I don’t believe you know what you’re getting based off the cover. I’ve hated many covers but enjoyed the contents. And to look at a cover with a scantily clad women or a woman in a spandex suit and shrug it off as a terrible story is the same as looking at a beautiful woman and immediately judging her as stupid.
And the “others” who enjoy the stories are not exclusively male.
The heroine doesn’t choose to wear it. The male author chooses to put her in it. There’s a difference.
The Electra and Psylocke ones look good and appropriate. No way could Black Canary wear that, maybe if it looked more like a martial artists outfit. Not necessarily tight, but loose in the correct places. Supergirl and Powergirl couldn’t wear those outfits and fly very well. Even Superman’s costume is skin tight. Who want to have sleeves and pantlegs flapping at mach 1?
The Wonder Woman one is awful. Really, just draw a pair of Dockers under her usual outfit along with some sleeves. The Jim Lee redesign just prior to the “New 52” reboot was much, much better. It still had the corset top, but came with a jacket to go over it and had long pants that wouldn’t get in an Amazon’s way.
Wow, these are awesome! They look more like normal chicks doing super things now as opposed to…well, I just won’t say what I think. Anyway. Wonder Woman’s boots are a bit…lumpy though? Maybe it’s just because of the pants. IDK how that would look in real life. And I bet Supergirl’s boots would fly off cause they’re not flush at the top, but other than those little idiosyncrasies that are not a big deal and probably only noticed by me…AWESOME!!
I’m a guy and I’d prefer female heroes be drawn like this. Why does Power Girl need to have her “boob window”? All these heroes look a lot better (except Wonder Woman, I think they over did it on the pants being too baggy, Vampriella’s pants would look good on Wonder Woman).
Completely agree. There are depictions of heroines that do go too far in fan art and in some graphic novels but I don’t think that a woman has to be wearing layer upon layer to be acceptable.
I think there are a few depictions here that are amazing.
Skin-tight, barely-there clothing does not equal automatically femininity. These clothes do just fine evoking feminine qualities and there is no doubt about these characters sex here.
I would throw out there that skin-tight clothing actually leaves more room to question if the character achieved the super hero status on her own or via a sequence of circumstances where “the poor little girl” had sexual appeal on her side, to paraphrase what you said. Do you think HitGirl would appear more intimidating in tight clothing, for example?
I just don’t understand the baggy shoes. It seems like they’d be an impediment.
They look cool, but they’d look odd besides male superheroes without skintight stuff. Unless the male outfits were changed too of course
Very nice! Skin is not the only attraction. In fact it is quite limiting. Great outfits! Great, and much more logical, costumes.
Well obviously women fight crime and evil better in a G-string or thong, thigh high boots and a well developed cleavage monster. Please, appreciate my sarcasm. I think the women should wear more clothes, but they need to fit and be practical, i.e. Wonder Woman’s baggy pants up there could cause a problem in battle by being terribly uncomfortable. Give them some shorts and get rid of the ever powerful push-up bra. Even if they don’t, I’ll still read them though. :-)
There’s a difference between making judgmental assumptions, and simply not being “hooked”. If you walk up to someone in a store and say “why are you looking at this book here and not that other one over there?” they won’t say “I assume the other book is terrible and badly written.” It could potentially be great and they aren’t disputing that, but the title, cover art, or theme just didn’t attract their interest. There are too many books in the world for reading at random to be a workable strategy.
So, the feedback we are getting here is that women characters who are dressed in attractive yet functional clothes are very compelling to female readers and make them want to learn more about the stories. An author who is interested in selling more titles to women would do well to note that. That’s all.
Like them all except Wonder Woman’s… the mix of roman armor and khaki pants just isn’t working for me…
As opposed to the stilettos the original figures would be wearing, you mean?
Just to play devil’s advocate here, but the male heroes aren’t wearing baggy clothing like this either and are form fitting as well. I get the sentiment here but it’s almost like its trying too hard. Also as a jujitsu practitioner I see a lot of things that can be grabbed and used for choking. Now imagine that for super powered villains with super human speed and strength.
Obviously, no character in any form of fiction makes real choices. If that were the case, Wolverine would have a much different outfit. No Canadian lumberjack I know would be caught dead in that train wreck.
In the real world, women chose to wear skin tight or revealing clothes every day. Suspending our disbelief, if the fictional world the heroines live in were real, it would be Betsy’s –choice- to wear that purple body suit.
I’m not going to demonize all male artists for every over sexualized
depiction of a character because that is grossly unfair. There are many female artists who depict women in skin tight clothing; tons of female fan artists do it to heroes all the time.
Likewise, there are many male artists who have depicted female
characters completely covered and layered. In The Uncanny X-Men #257, the writer was male, the artists were male and you will never see a more clothed Psylocke/Lady Mandarin.
They look so much warmer now. :)
Why not their necks and faces then? Clothes for comic book characters are purely aesthetic. Unless they are wearing super powered or magically imbued armor or apparel it’s all worthless when you are getting blasted by bolts of energy, sprayed with acid, skidding across concrete, or being generally assaulted in the way normal cloth can’t do anything but disintegrate.
I like a few of these a lot, particularly Vampirella and Zatanna, but most fail to find the balance between looking attractive and being sensibly dressed.
This is kinda ignoring all the form fitting outfits that male superheroes wear.
I don’t understand why Vampirella’s purpose is removed by being fully clothed. She has a mesmeric stare. She could wear whatever she wanted and would be able to have any effect on anybody she wanted.
It’s not her clothes that give her powers. It’s her super human abilities.
I understand the project, the process, and the emphasis, I just don’t think that ill fitted clothes make practical sense on any superhero, male or female. In a fight something could get caught or someone could judo throw the hero or any number of unsavory things could happen. I like the creativity behind the design and the experimentation, but I think that the ultimate solution exists balanced between form, function, and class, regardless of the gender…
She’s from another planet in her origin tale. So really she could adopt any style she wanted. I like the depiction here a lot!
I feel like doing that Electra version as a costume, and see if anyone approaches me
and asks me why I’m wearing more than I “should”, and if it’s because
I’m fat, because fanboys like to say such things. Or if I’m doing it to avoid becoming part of someone’s spank bank. Gotta love un-socialized convention goers.
PFFFTAHAHAAHA!!
Wait, are you serious? Oh no.. you are aren’t you… So, if I were to make a female character, as a male, I would have to get some input from women before releasing her to the public, perhaps even put her through a few stress groups? Then I’d have to ask my fictional character what she wants to wear, so by the end of it all it isn’t even my character any more.
Now on the other hand, if I’m a female and make a female character then that’s absolutely fine huh? Why don’t you look up the Skull Girls artist and designer, or how about Bayonetta… then again, I guess that’s moot because they didn’t ask their FICTION CHARACTERS how they felt about their attire.
I can’t believe people are actually stupid enough to like your comment. Keep on fighting the good fight Lincoln, seems like you’re the only voice of reason among all these Feminazi retards.
I like the designs.
That said, it’s depressing to watch all the people jump on the ‘if they were drawn like this, I’d have liked them more’ bandwagon. Why? They have better bodies, perfect skin, and SUPERPOWERS. You can’t compare with them, and the goal has always been to draw them in a way that’s empowering and alluring. Looking good, and looking kickass. To say that them dressing in a way that is clearly intended to reduce their physical attractiveness makes the comics somehow more appealing seems so shallow, and misses the point of them being who we all want to be.
If I looked like superman physically, you can bet I would dress in a way that shows it off. I think this is similar for super heroines. IMO, of course.
Umm…. my only critique would be that the pants on Wonder Woman and on Supergirl don’t work with the coloring. Try a different color for those two maybe?
I like these too! Though I will point out that Zatana’s normal outfit is less of a super hero one and more of a stage performer. nick-picking I know.
Wonder Woman though looks totally bad ass.
I’m all for realistic redesigns but a few of them are way too baggy to
seem functional. WW’s pants are bunched up at the top of her boots, and
the boots themselves seem 2 sizes too big. Black Canary and Zatanna
are going to be walking all over the backs of their too-long pants, and
all of them are going to be sweating all over the place in these
colorful sauna-suits. I love the looks for Vamp, Psylocke, and Elektra
for sure. There’s a happy medium to be had here. Yes female hero
designs are too skin oriented, but I wouldn’t consider 1920s-era
neck-to-wrist-to-foot costuming to be practical either. When I wear a
t-shirt exposing my forearms I still consider myself fully dressed.
What I read:
“AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY AGENCY IT’S OK IF WE PRETEND IT’S ALL AGENCY THE CULTURE HAS NO EFFECT ON ANYONE”
Because tight fitting outfits do NOT work when you are fighting. With the exception of spandex, the tighter the outfit, the more difficult it is properly move. Spandex is a thin material that allows for someone to move around either, but it offers no protection whatsoever. However, if you’re wearing protective material like armor, or leather or some kind of kevlar or at the very least a thicker fabric you want it to be loose, thus allow for you have a bit more movement. Its why martial art uniforms are baggy and not formfitting.
this is a nice set up, this way Girls should be more interested in knowing more about comics, I do consider sometimes characters are oversexualized for male attention, even the male characters are steroid-filled heroes, why can´t there be more normal, scrawny, nerdy type of heroes?
I think I’ll stick with the originals.
As much as I do love this for a lot of reasons, for some characters it makes sense to be scantily clad – Although I don’t know a lot about the comic book character Vampirella specifically, sexuality has always been connected thematically to vampires, and from a quick glance at the list of stories on the Wikipedia page about her, she’s no exception.
I’m not poopooing these pictures, though. I adore them, I just think that some applications of characteristic dignity can be moot due to the characters’ established themes.
She looks like she belongs with the League of Extraordinary Gentleman!
You sir, have taste. And I’m with you on that as well. They all look much better to me as well!
Super Girl, Yes
Power Girl, Meh. Her cleavage is both iconic and now part of her character. Besides, shes from an alternate universe, social norms could be different, and who would tell her otherwise? Feminism isnt about hating men for what they like. I would leave this one.
Wonder Woman: Super Yes
Black Canary: The drawing is poor, but the concept is ok.
Zatana: Hell no! She Just looks Gary Oldman in Bram Stokers Dracula. She had an awesome fun 1950s pinup magicians outfit…nothing about this says magician at all.
Electra: Awww hell yea
Psylocke: Digging the cyber ninja look, awesome.
Vampirella: Nope. Shes become too iconic. Popular in the 70s low fantasy genre, she resides alongside red Sonya and Conan in terms of style. Besides, shes a vampire, she exsists outside of societal norms. Although this would be cool walking among the humans wear.
I honest believe Power Girl and Supergirl would be fine with wearing those kinds of things, mostly because the ones above will be LESS LIKELY of being destroyed in a fight. Yes, their bodies are invulnerable, but their uniforms are not. They get ripped and torn all the time, depending on the writer and end up exposing too much. I could easily see them wearing it for the sake of not wanting to end up naked too quickly.
As for women using their bodies as weapons, that might be true for some heroes, but not these ones. Supergirl and Power Girl for example rarely need someone to objectify them in combat to get the edge. They’re usually faster than most normal criminals thus not needing to use their sexuality as a weapon. And the ones who are a match for them power wise, often have no interest in them sexually (i.e. Darksied, Doomsday, etc…) Kinda makes that argument invalid.
Other heroes above don’t need to use their bodies as “weapons” either, because again, its rare for them to come across an enemy that they can’t defeat faster than they have a chance to objectify them or have a desire to. With the exception of them being held hostage by a dumb lacky because their powers are shut down, they rarely use their sexuality as a weapon.
Realistically, the primary reason all these superheroines have been depicted in revealing/skin tight clothing is because the comic book market is primarily driven by male readers and putting the women in skimpy clothing is a marketing ploy. Now, I like comic books, and that doesn’t stop me from reading them. But if putting them in skimpy clothing to attract male readers is OK, I don’t see why putting them in more realistic clothing in order to attract female readers isn’t equally OK. Comic books are visually driven – that’s why they’re comic books and not novels – so to self-righteously criticize people who are influenced by the visual aspects of the comic is just ridiculous.
Right on, dude.
It’s reminiscent but I would argue that it’s not the same issue. I think it’s stupid how some women are posed but I don’t have the same issue with what women in comic books wear.
There are many costumes that, while skin tight, are fully clothing the heroine. The same can be said about Superman or Cyclops though.
You can argue that skin tight uniforms are more practical for the kind of battling superheroes do.
On the other hand, the posing…..that’s just silly. You should always face your opponent head on. Not bum first.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Great job, Michael Lee Lunsford. You really provoked some interesting dialogue, and that it art. Whether we love it or hate it, it got us talking about what heroes wear and why.
These are fantastic!
I actually like this, makes you look at the actual design of the heroine instead of her *ahem* assets.
As a Male who wears suits to his daily job, my clothes fit far better than most of theirs. If you feel that way, than perhaps you should invest in a good tailor.
Because wearing a mask and cowl and stuff that covers your neck and face for protective reasons can be more of hindrance than help sometimes. Ask any actor who dressed up as Batman or any one who has worn soldier outfits. Its hard to hear, hard to move your head, and hard react when wearing those things.
As for their clothes being aesthetic, that’s completely not true. Yes, there are things that can destroy most of their clothes, but particularly for the non Kryptonians, it still offers protection. Why do you think motorcycle drivers wear leather jackets. Its not to look cool, but because leather offers a little bit more protection. For any of the heroes, they’ll take whatever protection they can get. And you forget that in most cases, they are not wearing regular fabrics like spandex or something. They are wearing leather, or kevlar or some kind of thicker and more protective fabric, like the Fantastic Four’s unstable molecule uniforms.
I’ve always said superheroes, male or female, are basically the nude form with a cape and or mask. Think about Spider-Man swinging through the city, or Superman flying.
I only know a few of these Characters, and I think they Look SO much better fully clothed. Not only is it more appropriate for younger children, its more practical and makes them look more like actual women, not Sex Idols
Because as a murderous vampire she rejects the status quo. Sexuality is and has always been an aspect of that. Think of the 60s.
But they aren’t the police, they’re superheroes. ALL superheroes wear skin tight outfits that show off their bodies, muscles and curves. Superheroes are supposed to be the ultimate in everything including sex. They are sex symbols. Some of the original outfits for some of the women are highly impractical but so are these. How do you fight crime in slacks? You don’t that’s how.
Some of these are pretty good – I particularly like Zatanna and Psylocke – but a couple stand out as really off. Wonder Woman’s pleated khaki pants are the worst offender; it’s not sensible at all. Definitely an interesting drawing exercise.
There is a difference between making a judgmental assumption and not being “hooked”. Thinking “I refuse to look into this character because of how she’s dressed” is not always the same as not being “hooked”.
People assume books are bad or poorly written all the time based off of the cover. Sure, maybe the synopsis didn’t grab them. Or maybe they didn’t even read the synopsis because they made the judgment that the story is not for them because Elektra has a lot of skin showing.
I am a woman. I read comic books. A female character dressed in jeans and a sweater is no more compelling to me than a women in a leotard. Why? Because what the character is wearing says nothing about what kind of character they are. I find out what a character is about and then I make a decision. As an author, you’re never going to please everyone. You should make your characters however you see fit and let the audience find them.
If it’s all coming down to marketing, sure. But that doesn’t lessen my point.
If I judged all characters by their costumes, I certainly wouldn’t pick up any comic with Wolverine on the cover.
I will posit that Zatanna definitely feels off looking like that, especially with oversized trousers. It is especially good for the “sexy ninja” characters like Psylocke and Elektra though, they’re a bit easier to take seriously
Totally agree with the above. One argument for fitted costumes is that there’s less for an opponent to grab. Let’s look at a practical example: gymnastics. We see our favourite superheros/heroines do some crazy flips, jumps and other maneuvers. So why don’t gymnasts wear more clothing? Because it can affect range of motion because of binding material.
I’m not saying suits have to be skin-tight, but having more fabric can be a hindrance to “getting the job done”. Superman has a tight suit because it’s aerodynamic. The flash doesn’t run around in a poncho and cargo pants for the same reason.
Sure, some artists might use the costumes to give their characters more appeal, but remember, these are supposed to be depictions of the best that humanity has to offer (for the good guys). The characters are in “super” shape and wear costumes that work to their advantage. Are they realistic? It’s a comic world. Who cares?
To the topic of what women feel about the skimpy costumes, I’ll one up you… I know a little girl who absolutely LOVES Wonder Woman. Does she care that her costume isn’t covering her arms, legs and cleavage? Nope. She’s keen enough to see that it’s just what she wears as a superhero and that it’s what she does with her powers that matters, not what she wears.
I think some of the designs are pretty interesting, personally. That said, superheros wear what they do to stand out, not to blend in. Same reason first responders drive around in vehicles with loud sirens and bright flashing lights.
Wow they look as dull as dirt.
I love some of the anachronistic elements to these costumes for sure! It’s more so the clashing pants on Wonder Woman and the poorly tailored suit of Zatanna! If it was tailored to fit her it would be amazing. But no one should wear their jacket at that length if they’re going for a fashionable look! ; ) (If tailored properly I would wear that in the real world!)
I should also mention that Power Girls Buxom nature would help eat away at the comics code freeing artists from censorship (RIP Wally Wood)
While I understand the importance of pointing this out, I would like to note that it can go both ways- “The male author is making them all dress “modestly”, they’re not choosing that for themselves.”
There’s a difference between “the author made them do this” as the supreme reason and “this action fits the character” like with anything done in a novel or book..
Although, trying to apply logic to “Does this clothing choice fit the character?” can be extremely problematic due to how it can boil down to stereotyping and unfair dichotomies for who should do what. “Does she seem like a prude/slut?”
Anyway, I don’t mean to argue against you or anything really, I just want to point out that just because an author’s choices go along with someone’s current socio-cultural concerns(ie too much emphasis on sexuality via revealing clothing for female characters) does not mean they are necessarily enlightened and free of being problematic.
I agree with you for almost all of them with the exception of Zatanna. Her pants seem to go past her heels, Maybe she should have made the cut an inch higher? Other than that, I agree.
I noticed that when comic book heroines are dressed very sexy, it makes them more mysterious. I’m not sure why that is exactly. It probably goes in to some whole other psychological thing. Maybe men fear a sexy confident women which gives the woman a sense of power over the man who fears her. So it could be why a lot of old school comic book heroines were super sexy. I don’t think men were trying to exploit the female figure. I think they just saw a powerful woman as being super confident and their idea of a super confident women is a sexy one. When I saw these drawings, I felt that the character’s now became more down to earth and not as mysterious. Interesting. I think this was a very good experiment.
Most of the time. My point is, I’m not going to miss a gem because I’m told I’m not supposed to like comic books because I’m a woman. I’m not going to miss a form of entertainment that I enjoy because I’m supposed to be too offended by a woman’s bare legs.
Not all the comics I read have award winning stories. But they have fun stories. Stories that I want to wind down after a long day reading. I find it annoying to be told that the stories aren’t for me just because the art isn’t specifically directed at my gender.
No, you don’t have to do any of those things. Just don’t be surprised if women are offended when your female character is depicted running about daily in more revealing clothing than most of us would wear on the beach.
Supergirl: Her outfit feels a little generic, but I like the two shades of blue. The red skirt seems a bit more recognizable, but I can roll with blue.
Powergirl: I like the “fully dressed” version of the costume better than the canon one. Leotard-style costumes just look silly.
Wonder Woman: Treating the gold design as armor highlights its deficiencies as armor. She’s got metal over her rib cage (already naturally armored), but only cloth protecting her from being disemboweled. I know it’s a standard comic book armor trope, but as long as we’re talking sensible costumes, I’d make it either a pattern on the fabric or part of a more protective armor piece.
Black Canary: looks cool, but it seems like a civilian outfit. It doesn’t really say “superhero” to me.
Zatanna: She could work either way. Her canon outfit is pretty standard stage magician stuff, so it makes sense for her.
Elektra: The “fully dressed” version actually looks cooler than the canon version, albeit with a bit of “generic ninja”.
Psylocke: This version is better. Hands down. Female superheroes need costume design too, I don’t know why so many artists stop at “what color should the leotard be?”
Vampirella: The “fully dressed” version looks like a character in a story; the canon version looks like what
As long as the legs are not drawn like stovepipes, they look great.
C’mon, brown slacks? Wonder Woman can be fully dressed without Crow T. Robot’s sensible brown pants. They’re not even color co-ordinated.
The #1 thing this made me realize is how warm superhero costumes would be, on men or women. Great drawings.
Absolutely! Everything in entertainment is marketing driven. I work in that industry. It’s my job to find out what demographic is going to like which things. How do we find an audience for this movie? etc etc.
That does’t mean that as a female reader I have to be offended by what I see. In my daily life I see women wearing revealing clothing and it isn’t for marketing, it isn’t for men. And it’s okay.
I think that it is absolutely okay for comic books to put women in everyday clothing. I think it’s okay for them to put Wonder Woman in jeans and a t-shirt if that’s what they feel like doing. Power Girl can wear a track suit for all I care. It’s all okay.
I’m merely pointing out that to say you’re only going to look into a character because of what they’re wearing is stupid. It’s still going to be the same character and it’s still going to be the same story.
Vampirella: The “fully dressed” version looks like a character in a story; the canon version looks like what the artist wants to see at his booth at Comic-Con
I think you’re getting too hung up on visual semantics. This particular artist didn’t do a very good job of fitting certain points, he’s certainly no tailor. The only places I see this “bagginess” is in the leggings and shoes, except Zatanna’s top. It would make sense that wearing what she is wearing up top, though, that she may need some flexibility lest she just rip her outfit apart fighting in it. The leggings being baggy make total sense to me; wearing tights or too-tight legging can *seriously* restrict your motion as a human, whereas buying leggings one size up, for instance, increases your flexibility by a lot. I think some of the slack you’re seeing is in the knees, too, and that’s what REAL hosiery does, regardless of type of size. It’s a hassle, but it’s nice to have someone draw in what really happens.
Wonder Woman’s and Supergirl’s boots are drawn badly. Stop overanalyzing the concept.
If she rejected the status quo then she should be completely covered up with glasses, a sweatshirt, and flats. The status quo of a female vampire in to be as revealing as possible.
Her purpose isn’t to be barely dressed.
But I do see the connection to the 60s. That’s in character.
… why can’t you fight crime in slacks?
Incidentally, how many male superheroes DON’T wear spandex?
How do you fight crime with your double D’s flying all over the damn place? I’m gonna tell you right now: you don’t. You smack yourself in the face with one, and you lose.
I think it would be amazing if more female superheros/villains, were dressed this way. However, I don’t think this preference gives me “class” or “good taste”. There is nothing wrong with being sexy or wearing sexy clothing, the issue is that there is no real balance in costumes that this way and those that aren’t. So let’s stop with the borderline slut shaming, because that’s seriously not ok…
Zatanna looks like she just saw “Annie Hall”. hehe
But it is offensive to know that that is the image of women that men who read comic books are being fed.
Or, you know, along with.
Also, Wonder Woman’s breastplate screams “Look at THESE! Even hidden you can tell I have huge bazongas!”
Very nice! The only thing I don’t like is Wonder Woman’s pants. The brown doesn’t seem to fit the rest of her look. The metal abs are a bit odd too (though they fit right in with the typical male costumes and their equally bizarre choices).
And though they look nice, Zatanna may want to lose an inch off her pant length too – seems like a tripping hazard ;)
But they put wolverine in that outfit for men, too. It’s not like they dress him like that for the ladies, it’s to make you want to be that burly tough dude, to want to read his adventures and imagine it’s you. They hardly dress women so you can also imagine “conquering” them. It’s all for the men, so to be all like “they scantily dress, men, too!” it’s because they’re showing you all that testosterone you should envy.
One other thing – all these all elves? Their faces look like they were all penned by Rob Liefeld. LOL
I’ve been highly attracted to comic book art since I was a child, and highly repulsed by the depiction of women in comics just as long. As it is, I still read comics, just tend to mix a healthy dose of cognitive dissonance into my enjoyment every time I see a basketball titted donut waisted “heroine” in glitter pasties. If comics looked like the above, I would load my paycheck into a cannon and fire dollars at comic book publishers. We all seek out heroes and heroines we can identify with on some level. If I’m a “feminazi retard” because I can’t identify with heroines dressed like Vegas strippers, I guess I’m a “feminazi retard”.
Yeah, because our men in arms suck at fighting so much in their baggy pants, combat boot, and all that gear. Surely super heros couldn’t do it. Or ya know, all of the military forces that fought in armor or generations throughout history.
Women and men don’t HAVE to be sex symbols just because they’re comic book heroes. Neither do men.
“feminazi”. . . .haven’t heard that one in a while. . . oh right, that’s because that’s a stereotype used as a derailment and can only force people to never take you seriously ever again. . .
Very nice! Not only do they look like actual capable women (as opposed to impossibly proportioned supermodels) I tend to find “combat fatigue couture” makes a lot more sense for a superhero rather than the leotard and underpants look.
Only Supergirl and Powergirl seem off to me. The rest look great!
I don’t know a single guy that looks at what Wolverine is *wearing* and says “I want to know more about him! I want to be him!”
It’s Wolverines physique that does that, perhaps. But not his outfit.
I never said that men in comic books are scantily clad. Ever.
There are very few scantily clad men in comics. I have said that men in comics have skin tight outfits however. That’s just fact.
Men might look at a female character and think of conquering them. Not all men. But sure, some might. There are also men that look at Psylock and think she’s badass.
As a female reader, I look at that outfit and regardless, still would want to be a super hero. I never said I liked every bikini looking outfit but I don’t demonize it either. I can still look at Rogue and want to be her. I can still look at Wonder Woman and want to be her.
Clothing doesn’t have to inform so negatively.
With or without all the skin, yup.
Well, that’s some mighty boring art.
I like the looks overall, except for Wonder Woman’s pants… the brown pants feel totally out of place with the rest of the outfit. Also, Black Canary’s iconic leather jacket should have probably been kept, she feels the least recognizable of the group now.
Sure, it’s clear that a lot of women find those images offensive. Most of the dramaticallyover sexualized images can be offensive. There are plenty of inappropriate images out there that are far beyond inappropriate and I don’t feel it comnes close to what any of the above heroes wear.
I don’t think a woman in a bathing suit is offensive. Psylock essentially wears a bathing suit. I don’t have a problem with that. Storm, though clothed from head to toe, is wearing a skin tight outfit. I’m fine with that as well.
Men who read comics are also being fed images of Lois Lane in a pencil skirt, blouse and glasses. Is that offensive? I don’t think so. And many men think she’s beautiful and would pick her over Super Girl anyday .
My point is that it shouldn’t matter what the clothing is. I know many smart, beautiful, strong women in my daily life who have worn clothing that is skin tight and shows off their stomach, or short shorts that show of their legs. I don’t find what they wear offensive and I’m not offended that that is the image the are portraying to the world.
Yes culture is a huge influence and the images we see in comic books are predominantly marketing driven. But to say that clothing is offensive is just not in my wheel house.
This artist isn’t making a huge social commentary. He’s not poking at the ethics. He’s simply putting characters in different clothes. There’s no moral agenda if you read what he said was his intention. So I am commenting on clothes. Clothes and my feelings toward the heroes that wear them.
I do want to make it clear that I respect your opinion though, even if I don’t completely agree with you.
The way men act in female targeted romance stories is just as offensive to us men, yet we never complain about it. Go fight some actual female suppression and leave us alone with our entertainment.
Besides, you’re acting like men suddenly all think women should dress scantly from reading comics. Reality shows that it’s football players and the like that actually degrade women in real life and demand of them to wear skimpy things, not comic book nerds.
The thing that bothers me most about these re-designs, is the mind set that the only reason that these characters dress the way they do is because men force them to, and that no female super-hero costume that reflects contemporary styles in woman’s fashion or action ware is “legitimate” because a male creator may have designed the character…
There’s also the implication that no “right thinking” woman would dress that way…which to me is equally offensive
Just because the condescension comes from within the group doesn’t make it less aggravating…
I feel it is capable to have a full-cover costume work for female super heroines. I do not think these would be them though. It could, however, just be the bland poses and facial expressions presented that are keeping the characters personality from coming through, since outfit actually has little to deal with a characters personality when compared to those two aspects.
Way to address the points above there! You sure taught me!
From the Artist himself:
An exercise in character design, attempting to clothe the heroines nearly all the way and not making them painted-on, while still keeping the look of their original costumes in some way. Hopefully keeping them looking as iconic as the originally were. Just showing what can be done with a costume breaking outside the barrier of the norm.
This is great. The Supergirl is my favorite but I enjoy how Wonder Woman’s still looks preposterous. (In a good way! Other attempts at this sort of thing usually give WW a boring look.)
If I was going to complain I’d say that Black Canary’s costume reads more as “Mall Cop in Space” than Super Hero, but I’m not really that knowledgeable about that character.
You could hand-wave the sun thing pretty easy by saying the costume is translucent to UV or to whatever specific frequencies they need.
You could even say the dark areas absorb solar energy and convert a large percentage of it to the precise frequencies they need. Thus increasing their overall solar/skin efficiency.
I agree with you, wonder woman and black canary look like they are going skiing. The boots and pant legs are way too wide. Zatanna’s pants look like they are three sizes too big for her too. “Clothed” doesn’t mean that they have to look ‘butch’. That being said, this is a good effort and I support the intent.
They all work for me except the Wonder Woman. Either put her in armor or leave her like she is.
These are outstanding! In almost all cases, I think they look better fully clothed. There are a few points where either a lack of clothes or form-fitting clothes would better for me, but mainly because I think it would look better and make a bit more sense. I can see Elektra having bare arms (though I LOVE the baggy ninja pants and tabi shoes), for example, or Wonder Woman with form-fitting leggings (is she wearing…khakis?!?).
“when your female character is depicted running about daily in more revealing clothing than most of us would wear on the beach.”
my ass, have you seen what women commonly wear on the beach now of days? So because my character would wear something skin tight or “revealing” by your standards it’s something that is frowned upon because I’m a guy designing it? So tell me, what if it’s a woman desigining, as I said above, in the case of Skull Girls or Bayonetta? Is that still sexist or is it empowered? I honestly wouldn’t mind if some dumb bitches were offended by my characters, people will always find something to be offended about.
If I made a female character and she was meant to be a bit seductive, I’d give her some tight, revealing attire, as is the case for Vampirella. There is obviously more to the character, but that is a big characteristic and I’m going to embrace it. I’m not going to change her attire to make a few women who probably don’t even read comics happy, I’m going to worry about the artistic integrity first and foremost, rather than cater to make people happy.
Great, just what we need… more conservative prudishness in downplaying the fundamental human experience of sexuality. Why not simply put them in burqas and be done with it? We can’t have the skin of their ankle or neck tempt anyone into losing all control which might lead to sex or sexual thoughts -horror!-, thus offending the great and mighty magic invisible sky being of choice in their head, for simply following humanity’s natural design!
We should be heading into an America with the ability for our entertainment to stop being censored by the prudish police. For instance, TV shows could choose to have sex, nudity, and swearing (you know, treat us like adults) on any channels in primetime. Movies, books, comics, computer games that don’t avoid sexual situations or themes for fear of being attacked as the faux-feminism this very article is (intended or not). We should not be heading backwards into the 1700s, making certain we never see an ounce of wrist skin for fear of being struck by lightning for our “sins” (simply for being that which we are meant.)
Lady cop uniforms are about the least-flattering items of clothing on Earth.
It seems like you missed her point. Sorry you can’t read hombre.
why was the focus only on the females? The Artist has a Spider-Man version as well… http://ze-tarts.tumblr.com/post/45829278215 – biased reporting smh
It’s extremely ignorant to think that only men draw female heroes that way.
I raise you with this
Ehhh the legs seem stumpy….. waaaaay stumpy…… some work , elektra psylocke, the rest,,, don’t…. it doesn’t have to be skin tight but super girl power girl and wonderwoman are just layers of layers of layers of stuff…
These pictures are a great example of why comic books are drawn the way they are. These are pretty boring.
Shows how smart the pros are.
They look great, like you could actually take them as serious comic book heroines. I am so sick of seeing every type of women exploited, especially the ones who are supposed to be honorable. They should have always been drawn this way.
Wow. This is amazing. Rather than sex objects, they look phenomenal! Powerful even.
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7135/avengelyne99af.jpg
Indeed, this art is so much more professional and well done, it just puts this non-professional artist to shame!
I like how you go from dental floss bikini to burqa, as if there is no other way for a woman to be dressed.
Agreed – I’d have preferred some kind of chainmail.
Ironically, the type of armor she would be wearing if we’re going Greek wouldn’t have any pants under it – even if a dude was wearing it. But that wasn’t the point of the exercise.
You know, these look more practical.
I mean, if I were fighting crime, I wouldn’t want to be tripping over high heels and stopping every five minutes to dig the back of my suit out of my butt crack. Also, how is showing all of of your midriff and practically all of your chest protecting your vital organs from damage? Fighting crime can be sexy, but being a sex symbol (or, let’s face it; sex object) is not the main objective when you are trying to save the world or whatever.
As for the “baggy” clothes, skin tight, or even form fitting clothing would either rip or chafe REALLY bad while fighting crime.
The difference is that Lincoln is looking at the situation without comment on the gender of the artist. If a woman chose to put her character in a similar outfit to Psylocke what would you say then?
They look good for the most part, but why is Wonder Woman wearing cargo pants? They don’t even match.
Great work! I know that the money selling comics will not agree with me, but I think that there are many accessories and layers of clothing that can be added to the almost obligatory leotards to make the characters look more interesting, add style, and also add depth of functionality to the hero and their alter-egos.
Enough said :)
While I’m not feeling Wonder Woman’s brown pants (???) Or Zatanna’s boot cut slacks, I absolutely love the redesigns!
That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.
Who reads a comic book and says “Oh y’know I bet Wonder Woman is only a superhero because some guy gave her those powers. Y’know, because she wears that outfit”
HitGirl wouldn’t be more intimidating if she was wearing a skin tight outfit. Likewise, she’s also not more intimidating without.
Some times, more IS more.
“the mind set that the only reason that these characters dress the way they do is because men force them to.”
You mean like, uh, the men who draw the comics? Nah, that’s ridiculous. These fictional characters totally dress a certain way because they choose to,
First off, I am a big fan of Mike. He has a great style and I enjoy his comic Supernormal Step. I think his take on these typically half naked heroines is for the most part, spot on. The ninja trained Psylocke and Elektra look more deadly than they do prancing around in their usual thongs and I think if the Question can fight crime in slacks, why can’t Zatanna. My only gripe is the baggy clothes on the invulnerable characters. Typically that’s a bad thing. These are people getting thrown into walls and getting missles shot at them. Baggy clothing is gonna catch fire and tear a lot sooner than close fitting stuff. From the designs above Wonder Woman would be pantless in no time and Supergirl would be naked after one drag out fight. I am not a huge fan of the styling on Powergirl but her outfit seems the most practical out of all the invulnerable ladies. They don’t feel cold that well either, so they probably aren’t dressing for weather extremes. Black Canary is probably my favorite design and it resonates with the character. This in truth is how these characters should look when they are taken to the big screen. Awesome job Mike!
Doing what these women do, skin tight clothing would either tear up as they moved (Aw shoot! I flexed and my tights ripped!), or chafe so badly they would have “rug burn” all over. Not to mention that depending on the material, most skin tight clothing is exceptionally flammable The loose fitting clothing would be easier to move in, have less chance of ripping just from moving, and is a lot more comfortable. I can’t see myself digging my costume out of my butt crack every five minutes if I was a super heroine.
I feel so… PG . The art is lovely, but i prefer they costumes as the are.
Actually a good many of the comic book artists today are, in fact WOMEN! Look Up Ula Mos, Jenivieve Broomall, Nei Ruffino just to name a few. Frankly I have NO problem with the outfits in most comics.
Women draw female characters in revealing outfits all the time. Men also draw women in conservative clothing.
The point that’s trying to be illustrated, I think, is that it’s offensive for some people to hear that an outfit is inappropriate because a man designed it. At times, those kinds of comments can also be very isolating for the female fans who don’t mind those costumes. It also parallels people who shame women that wear tight clothing.
No one is saying that a fictional character has the ability to think, c’mon.
Not bad!
Sadly, as we all know, it’s the T&A that sells…
You have the right idea but you need a fashion designer expert to assist you. Keep it up.
Completely separate blog post smh
I always find it amusing how people get butthurt about women super hero outfits being overly sexualized, when male super heroes are generally just as sexualized. I mean seriously, all the dudes are big, buff, and wear skin tight clothes showing of their obnoxiously large muscles. Not to mention that most of them have their packages on full display. Some even wear underwear looking stuff on the outside, as if to draw attention to it. Look at Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, Wolverine, Cyclops, or Spiderman.
Yet, no one ever cares about that, only that the women wear skin tight clothing, and that some show off cleavage, butt, or legs. Almost like how women show off their cleavage, butt, or legs in real life, by using skirts, thongs, tight jeans, or low cut shirts.
What’s that? I can’t hear you over Psylocke’s buttcrack.
Vampi fully dressed? HERESY!!!
Now, i wanna see the fully naked edition
fully dressed? where’s the fun in that??? XD
I still like Wonder Woman…and I think Elektra looks AWESOME like that!
“There is an actual reason for Supergirl and Power Girl’s costumes.”
Sigh…
This is great! I for one am sick of ass-crack and cleavage and near-gynecological peekaboo in comics — because when you take anything, in any art form, and crank it to 11 and leave it there, you kill your dynamic range. You kill your material.
What is this?! WHAT! IS! THIS!?
The only one I have a problem with is Wonder Woman. I’m not to fond of those pants or boots.
These are some really great designs!
This is perfect!
I think Zatanna’s more modest design’s a bit of an improvement, personally.
i like dese honestly, some o’ them also look outright betta outside o’ da modesty. (Wonder Woman an’ Super Girl’s outfit just look betta wit pantz).
Some of them i like better like this, some i like the skimpy outfits. I dunno, I prefer Zatanna and WW normal desins, but the rest of these are cool
feminism is ruining everything.
ya, her outfit looked just silly before.
Yeah, it’s called “maturity.” I suffer from the same affliction, but only in occasional bouts; apparently some comic artists and fans don’t. :)
That’s odd, where did you find these engaging stories? I stopped reading super hero comics because it was just more of the same, characters never learned or changed for the better, and loads of pointless angst and melodrama. Also there was never any real satisfying resolutions to any of the story arcs I was reading. Also, I really hated some of the artwork–weird anatomy, weirder costume physics, and bizarre and uncomfortable poses that occasionally qualified as “body horror.”
As a female, I agree with you Lincoln.
Some of the heroines are better with those outfits, others that are supposed to be seductive and sexy might go with the half dressed. Overall, aesthetically, all the designs are better.
Also, those outfits are making SENSE. Those girls fight on high heels and spandex suits or creeky leather bikinis. Try a high-kick wearing a stiletto or a scratch on a full body spandex suit two numbers smaller for sexier effect. I know I’m going way too far but superpowers and dressing for the occasion are two different things. You can be “super” AND well dressed for fighting…
They feel pretty awkward that way.
Apparently “fuilly dressed” also means “showing no skin at all from the neck down”
Batman and Superman’s costumes might be covering but they also show their body shape. These are all bulky. Zatana, Black Canary and Wonder Woman seem to have extra covering just for the sake of covering. Wonder Woman’s pants don’t even match. BC and Zatana’s clothes look three sizes too big, especially the pants which look like bell bottoms. Electra’s sleeves need to go in the trash with the Wonder Pants.
Well, for the most part they work, Black Canary’s trousers might be a mistake though, I think she’d rather have her trouser legs inside her boots because those look like they could just get caught on something if she’s running or fighting, or even make her trip over herself, and that’d just be embarrassing!
Electra would look so much better and still be very respectfully covered if her outfit didn’t have sleeves.
Supergirl looks plain COOL!!! They need to switch to these designs today!!!
Not bad. Prefer some of them over the comic ones.
They look good to me!!!
To me the problem with this is that a lot of the outfits they put women in really aren’t practical – we’re supposed to believe that the character is smart and powerful when she’s wearing heels that would snap if you looked at them crosswise and a top her boobs would fall out of the second she turns upside-down. It’s like the chainmail bikini issue – it may be pretty but the person who wears it into battle is an idiot. If you want to be mobile and stealthy in an urban environment, you wear clothes that cover your skin. Skin is reflective and it tends to scrape easily – and if you fly, it will get cold quickly and sap your energy. Any _story_ that suggests a character can’t figure that out in one or two outings feels ridiculous. Wolverine is his own thing – he heals incredibly quick. But anyone without that power? If they have half a brain, they’re going to put more clothes on.
Wonder Woman looks effing terrible. My mom looks more intimidating then her. And let’s not forget that she’s wearing PANTS. Ancient Greeks did not wear pants. If Diana was Celtic it would make sense but since she’s Greek it just ruins immersion.
Hate to rain on your parade, but the sexual objectification of male characters is by no stretch of anyone’s imagination equal to that of female characters. You’d have a point if male characters and female characters were treated equally. The reality is that they are not. As for why women choose to wear skintight clothing, female crime fighters in the real world most certainly do not unless they’re undercover as hookers.
Think about it this way. Super heroes frequently are given new outfits outside their regular one. I’ve personally been drawing Marvel characters in alternate outfit ideas of my own not out of any issue with their iconic outfit but because it’s fun. The artist here even states that it isn’t “some moral code I’m trying to push on you” and tries to stay true to their iconic looks.
The Wonder Woman one is a vast improvement. I have never liked her normal costume. It just makes no frickin sense. why does an Amazonian woman use an America flag themed bikini for a costume?
There’s actually a thing (it has some official name but I can’t remember) that peaks attraction for males. It’s basically “more is less.” Scanty clothes, while appealing, aren’t as attractive to the average male because it leaves nothing to the imagination, while clothes that show less skin are more appealing because the male uses his imagination, and it even gives a sense of mystery. “What’s under her clothes? Hmmm…”
Basically, in a nutshell.
If any of that makes sense.
I like them a lot. I don’t think it has to really be all the way conservative for all heroines or all the way provocative, but hey if it matches their character’s personalities then I’m all for it. I particularly like Supergirl, Black Canary and Elektra. It seems like this style matches their characters a lot more than their old costumes do.
Powergirl is fucking amazing, and I love all the others except Wonder Woman and Zatanna. I’ve always read WW’s skimpiness as Greek-style freedom of movement, though, and I keep thinking she’d miss some of that. Then again,Man’s World is on average colder than Paradise Island.
Zatanna is sleek, though, and this version looks both cross-dressed and a little frumpy. Though I get that she must’ve been the hardest, since she’s essentially wearing a “sexy *traditionally male vocation goes here*’ costume.
There’s actually a thing (it has some official name but I can’t remember) that peaks attraction for males. It’s basically “more is less.” Scanty clothes, while appealing, aren’t as attractive to the average male because it leaves nothing to the imagination, while clothes that show less skin are more appealing because the male uses his imagination, and it even gives a sense of mystery. “What’s under her clothes? Hmmm…”
Basically, in a nutshell.
If any of that makes sense.
Nicely done. Amazing how the attire makes them all look more formidable as martial artists or first responders. I guess that’s because first responders generally don’t show up in their underwear. I see the comic book aficionados freaking out thinking this is about moral code, etc. But what do you expect from guys who have been fed the fantasy image of women since they were toddlers. They have no other reference for what might be attractive besides what’s been drilled into their heads from childhood. The issue is systemic. It’s be fine if the occasional female character showed up in a bikini. But right now it’s 99% of them. So this offers a vision of what balance might look like. Bravo.
Yet Supergirl has a shirt in her regular design, the sleeves argument is invalid.
What a relief! They’re suddenly people!
Very true, but there are some characters that suit the style much more than this. I think a nice mix is the best approach. It’s rare that going 100% with anything is the best course of action.
The point is not to censor the flesh.
The point is that the female super heroines are dressed impractically for the sole reason of sexuality. Who the hell would go into combat with their stomach exposed. Have you ever fallen and scraped your bare knees on the sidewalk?
It hurts like hell! Going up against countless of super villains like that is stupid and doesn’t really make much sense.
Rogue’s power set kind of requires her to be completely clothed, depending on whether or not she can control her powers. I’ve always wanted to be a superhero. But putting a superheroine in shoes I know would be painful to wear or a costume that I know is likely to ride up her butt or (especially in fantasy comics) in armor that I know would offer zero protection kind of wrecks the fantasy, taking it beyond reasonable suspension of disbelief.
Forget the sex issue, how about practicality? It’s hard to fight crime if you’re worried about your top coming off. Speaking as a comic book fan, I’d find myself more likely to respect a character wearing more layers–simply because it means they’re actually concerned with safety and ease of use. This way Canary can roundhouse someone without risking a serious wedgie.
If you can’t make a seductive female character without making her mostly naked, that smacks a bit like laziness with regard to depicting more subtle mannerisms and personality.
I don’t like them one bit. Supergirl likes to show off her body, and there is nothing wrong with that. This looks like her mom dressed her. Also putting pants on doesn’t save the world any better than doing it in a leotard. Wonderwoman’s is horrible for so many reasons, and all the costumes are too loose fitting, in a fight that can get stuck on something and cause more harm. Also all these outfits look like they’d be hot as hell to wear, let alone fight crime in. Nice try, but way to miss the functionality of the uniforms. I don’t even care about the fanservice of their original costumes, but I sure as hell like them over these.
I’m all for more sensible clothing on female comic book characters–but a lot of these need some sort of tailoring. You can be covered and cool looking while avoiding looking dumpy and sad.
There are a whole number of reasons why women may draw women like that. Maybe she has no say regarding the character design, as is often the case with for hire work. Maybe because she’s trying too hard to prove her work can appeal to men. Maybe because she’s bought into the idea that women in comics have to look a certain way. Maybe because she doesn’t care about raising the bar for how women are portrayed. Yes, there are plenty of misogynistic women out and about. There were a lot of women who didn’t want the right to vote, either.
A LOT of these ladies look much classier when they’re not showing skin. But as usual, Wonder Woman just looks bad. I mean, her top half looks fine and actually something I would expect her suit of armor to look like, but tan slacks? Really?
You do care enough to oppose “overthought sacks of an outfit,” though.
Yes, its is. That the desirability of imaginary hypothetical men tends to sway less on how well their genitals are depicted (obviously, except for David Bowie in Labyrinth) and more on how wealthy, prestigious, and/or enigmatic they are doesn’t change the glorification. It only moves the goalposts. By the same ridiculous argument, men ought to decry how often men succeed in fantasy scenarios based solely on their machismo or wealth, and complain about how unfair a ideal that is to cast upon the frail egos of the men.
I think what you’re missing is how the prevalence of women portrayed as eye candy for men can put women off comics altogether. We’re not talking about isolated cases of a couple of characters here and there. We’re talking about an industry in which female characters in normal clothing are the exception, and ridiculous costumes and cheesecake poses are the norm.
Too bad it’s also a very real group of people. Just sayin’
I like all of these costumes expect Zatanna’s, I know she’s supposed to look like a stage magician but that I think that’s a little much, and Wonder Woman’s, solely because she’s wearing slacks and super heroes don’t wear slacks!
Rune, I’d been to a convention where a Vampirella cosplayer got more attention from the men in attendance than Gail Simone and Renee Witterstaetter combined. I don’t know what universe you’re in, but there is still a great deal of sexism in comics.
And guess what? Comics are not “your” entertainment. If you want the industry to survive, you’re going to have to share it with a female audience.
I would like to see Wonder Woman in a more Hellenistic array.Shield instead of rope, spear, xiphos, hoplite inspired armor, corinthian helm. Perhaps since the armor is magic the bracers could generate any weapons she needs from thin air. So she could have a bow, or javelin or whatever on demand. The weapons should have the theme of the Greek pantheon.
The thing is that male heroes aren’t as sexualized as female ones.
more please! I would LOVE more of these!
lol Me too, other than the purple. They’re kinda unisex.
Avoiding the whole Sexist whatever argument, I genuinely don’t like these redesigns (aside from super girl who looks nice and psylocke who Im indifferent towards). Power Girl, Elektra, and Wonder Woman look to bulky, and something about the grey pants just clashes with the red on Vampirella.
I’m not ashamed to say I like looking at scantily clad super heroines, but aside from being a horny bastard I think that things like fully clothed arms and baggy pants only look appealing on certain designs (like a full one piece suit) and that applies for men characters too. Slapping so many different colored articles of clothing on one person (especially when they’re obviously separate segments) just looks really ugly to me.
I’m sure many people think all of the characters have intriguing stories. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t be such big-name characters. However, when I’m standing in a comic store, faced with thousands of covers and no connection to them, I have to look at the covers to give me some insight that makes one stand out above all the others. I certainly don’t have the time or money to read everything just to be “fair”.
As it stands now, most covers don’t give me enough to justify investing my time or money into getting to know the characters. The cover art shows the same handful of stupid poses for most characters, and the women wearing clothing that does not tell me anything about their characters that attract my interest. If I saw a comic cover with a character drawn like the ones above, that tells me more about their characters than the flying plastic spine boobs/butt poses and g-string costumes that I usually see, and it gives me enough information to decide if I’m willing to take the risk and invest in getting to know the character and her story.
I love this! Especially Black Canary…I would wear that in real life! Also, for what it’s worth, I would enjoy superhero comics more if the womens’ costumes had a broader range of sexiness vs. modesty, like the mens’ costumes do.
Powers, Invincible, and Astro City are some examples of wonderfully engaging stories with super heroes. I usually prefer comics without super heroes though. I view the Marvel/DC universes similar to long running soap operas. Sure, they’re not always great stories, but that doesn’t stop them from being fun for a lot of people.
Still nice to look at.
Actually, I don’t read any comic with Wolverine on the cover.
Could simply be their winter uniforms. My daughter has been doing caricatures in anime and a sub-category, chibi – I guess that is what their called.
Love them all, especially Wonder Woman. 10/10, would cosplay.
You’re just not listening to the objections and you’re too busy defending being a girl who likes to objectify women. I find your comments really sad and I have no interest in furthering any discussion with you.
Are you kidding? Vampirella is the coolest one here! Spot-on :D
While I agree with the notion and would prefer superheroines to wear more, I think a few of these do not align with the characters’ personalities themselves. One example being Wonder Woman wearing khaki slacks. She’s an amazon, I’m sure there were other options that more aligned to her history. Another example being Supergirl’s costume should align more with Superman’s style, and not just in colors. She should have a similar suit to him to make the continuity flow better. I don’t understand the bagginess of several parts of it. A couple also lost anything feminine at all and were overly masculine.
Though, I want to say that these are all very well drawn and all of them (despite my nitpicking) are very awesome looking. I think the idea is great and more heroines should get a makeover. I’d love to see Raven’s.
Oh c’mon…. They look okay.They look less interesting. It’s no improvement. There is nothing wrong with they way they look originally and fully clothed. Don’t be scared, skin doesn’t hurt and neither does cloth.
Wow. You have struck a blow for women’s rights everywhere. You are so brave. So brave. That little girl in Afghanistan has got nothing on you. #firstworldproblems
Love them. Great job.
That is awesome! Some of these make more sense then what they actually wear.
These are all an improvement, but a few of them, the design needs an overhaul- Wonder Woman in particular looks like a reject from Judge Dredd. Those ones, the artis should have given thought to a whole new outfit, not a more complete version of the one at hand. Nice start, though.
These look horrible. I have nothing against superheroines covering up more, but these designs look bad. Why are Zatanna’s pants so baggy? Why is WW wearing khakis?
I actually dislike the Wonder Woman and Zatana ones. If only because Zatana’s fish-nets were a hallmark for her, and Wonder Woman just looks like she’s wearing normal trousers underneath. Otherwise, woo.
One last thing though… mind doing some Superhero ones in the same way though? I mean properly clothed, rather than the skintight thing.
I’m a female and it’s my honest opinion that it’s more sexist to assume all women who dress sexy and show a little skin MUST be ditsy, incapable, stripper whores who are undeserving of respect. I feel like men blame women for dressing sexy and making them uncomfortable because they can’t control the snake in their pants. The designs here are definitely more realistic and would work better in real life, but Comic books are not supposed to be about real life. Someone like Super Girl or Wonder Woman wouldn’t need to cover up much because bullets bounce off their skin anyway. In a way it would almost be better for them to dress sexy because it would distract the bad guys and you could knock them out while they’re staring at your cleavage lol. Also if you were basically a god like super human with a perfect body, why wouldn’t you want to show it off to the jealous mortals? lol.
This is actually an improvement. Please pass these around so that someone at DC might see them and give comic books some dignity.
The problem I have with all of these is that they went too far in the other direction to try and prove a point – they’re all too loose, big, and generally kind of unfitting. Black Canary’s pants look like baggy 80s pants and Wonder Woman looks like she’s randomly wearing baggy suit pants with her outfit. I like what they tried to do; You can definitely have female superheroes look awesome and attractive without showing so much skin or being in super tight clothes. However, I feel like these missed the mark a bit.
I do absolutely love that Zatanna, though. As much as I always loved the fishnets, it did look rather silly much of the time.
The artist already did Spiderman.
I like these better than the scantly clad customs. More realistic imo.
In terms of pure realism, yes and no. Supergirl and Power Girl’s outfits are much too baggy and have too many extended edges for characters who regularly spend time flying – too much drag and resistance.. Wonder Woman’s armour is still pointless and leaves a lot of vital areas open..Zatanna’s is probably the most realistic of them all. Electra and Psylocke aren’t too bad either, in that respect.
your right, wonder womans job is to be a slut, how dare she wear clothes! It only makes sense if she was a stripper, but she isn’t, she is a super hero. You’re a pig
If they get caught on something, they rip, and that’s all right. And I doubt she’s any more likely to trip on her pants than she is to go sprawling due to the stiletto boots that are part of her official costume. So I think the pants are fine.
Yeah, that’s because the viewer is assumed to be male and heterosexual.
But these heroes would not be targeting the VIEWERS with this, they’d be targeting the VILLAINS. Who may turn out to look like they were designed by the same people, but from the characters’ perspective should be expected to reflect the diversity of the world around them.
That it n combatdoesn’t make sense and it doesn’t protect her at all and has no logic for being something anyone would wear i
If you say so…
It’s still not a sexualized depiction.
These designs have bright spots, but most are way too bulky. Free movement looks like it would be an issue in some of them, as does overheating. If you removes the pants from Supergirl and used a more streamlined (close fitting) fabric that design would rock. Same with Wonder Woman. Zatanna’s outfit is honestly just stupid looking. Canary would not be able to fight in those pants (though the overall design has promise). Vampirella is cute and fashionable, but I don’t know if that fits with the character or not (because I don’t know the character). The Power Girl design is making me pull a face.
Elektra and Psylocke I do love.
Nudity is less attractive than juuuuust barely covering up.
Interesting take on them. I especially like the design of Elektra.
You know with these costumes they look more ‘fighter’ than ‘stripper’.
Diana does not wear a bikini (which is a [typically tiny] two piece swim suit) and her color scheme has been explained several times in canon. The reason she was designed originally with that color scheme is because of the Era in which she was created. Say what you will about Wonder Woman’s classic design, but it is iconic.
I don’t like most of these costumes. I do think many superheroine costumes are overly sexualized but this goes too far in the other direction. What’s with the baggy pants and shirts? Even male superheroes usually wear very form fitting costumes.
Superheroine costumes can be form fitting but stop with the boob cut outs or super lower cut or bare legs. Those kinds of costumes don’t even pretend to offer practical protection, and in fact the low cut/cutouts on the chest would make fighting harder due to lack of support(not to mention injury due to their being no protection whatsoever, not even from simple scratches).
Some of these designs are just as impractical as the original costumes, particularly WW’s – looking at the design, seriously? What a mish-mash of textures and colours, particularly the trousers. Yuck.
Electra and SG’s costumes are probably my favourites by a margin.
Didn’t she have flat soled boots during Simone’s Birds of Prey run? High heels are a silly notion for anyone with an active lifestyle.
Agreed. The premise is good, but these designs aren’t really practical attire for a superheroine (capes and cuffs get caught in/on things, for example), and no physically fit woman of action is going to feel comfortable in too many layers of anything. Think sleek, not suffocating.
the only one I don’t like is the wonder-woman one, it seems very robotic and unnatural
These fully clothed takes on these characters is really refreshing. I dont mind skin but its out of balance and sometimes silly. I like looks like Spider Woman and Batgirl, Barbara Gordon anyway as well as Maria Hill.
Power Girl looks the best. PG always looked like she was fighting in her Haines. I give this PG 100% A+.
Zatanna looks great in pants but equally great in her traditional ware.
JMS’s Wonder Woman is my favorite but I like the top on this one.
Supergirl looks okay but needs work.
Black Canary needs more black and blue and less purple (looks like Stephanie Brown)
Elektra = B+ but I imagine her looking good in a variety of ways.
Psylocke’s one character that skin is needed….thats her all the way.
I’m running into the same problem though. I mean I’m fine with the sex appeal in some cases, but I’m trying to draw super heroine’s with more practical and some what tasteful designs. the problem is many people are demanding how they need skirts, and skimpy outfits for female characters.
Powergirl is totally my favorite example. I think some of the pants look bulky and I’d use like black leggings instead or fitted jean/leather but I definitely like the concept of being a “Super” Still sexy and fully covered…even just from a selfish cosplay POV.
This is pretty awesome. Supergirl looks very cute, Powergirl and Zatana look very formal and respectable, Black Canary, Elektra, Psylocke and Vampirella all look awesome in modern styles. The only thing I’d change is giving Wonder Woman red pants instead of brown, it would fit better with the rest of her suit. Honestly, that’s the biggest complaint I can come up with. xD This is awesome. :)
Speaking as a female reader who enjoys the skin-tight costumes, maybe the feminists would be silenced if there was a greater diversity in female body-types and costumes in comcis, rather than do away with the spandex entirely? For some female characters, the scantily clad look is an integral part of the characters personality, notably Power Girl. That is who she is and telling her to cover up would be like snuffing the candle flame.
I like most of these designs, and I agree with the idea that fully dressed is by and large a better way to go. With the designs I don’t care for (Supergirl and Wonder Woman), it’s the designs themselves that I’m not grooving, not the lack of skin. And I am SO glad to see a Power Girl who doesn’t look like a walking wardobe malfunction.
Comic book artists and fans alike need to have it force-fed to them that skimpier does not make it better. Sometimes, tasteful, restrained, and yes, fully covered can be much more appealing and effective.
In every case they look less feminine and less sexy, and it is not just the coverage but the “blockiness” of the style. What’s next, a Superman with no muscle tone in a skirt?
Worrying about clothes that can be grabbed and used for choking may make sense in the real world, but it’s not much of a practical concern for superheroes.
If you’re super-strong and fast and I’m not, I’ve lost if you’ve grabbed me. If you’re super-strong and fast and so am I, the clothes will rip where you grab them with little resistance–I’m better off letting you grab for a cape than actually getting a hold on me. And plenty of superheroes do wear capes anyway.
Some look good, some look silly.
…and Wonder Woman’s khakis look idiotic.
Yeah, I see Superman’s costume (with long cape) and what I think of is “aerodynamic”.
Hey, most flying characters have capes. Hardly practical.
Supergirl’s costume above is closer to being form-fitting than her official one.
It’s funny, I think Vampirella looks way hotter in that than she does in her absurd regular outfit.
I sorta have to agree; we shouldn’t be ashamed of the nude form. Still, comics/fantasy is not fair game for female equality. I love the idea of female heroines getting very cool gear and clothing. As an artist, I do not find these particular designs bad…just not very good. I wholly support the idea behind these concepts but if I saw these outfits it wouldn’t appeal to me.
First of all, no, real women do not wear battle bikinis.
Secondly, nobody said that ANY “female super-hero costume” that’s sexual or skimpy is bad, only that the TENDENCY for them to be like that is bad.
There are male characters is similar costumes; they are rare. There are women in clothes more similar to the typical male superhero; they are also rare.
The difference is never individual–it’s trends.
I think that’s why the artist stressed that this was a thought experiment, intended to force the viewer to explore the ways in which we approach the female image in comic books.
I like both. I read comic books for the characters and plot. Not to see how much skin they show. Although having more coverage for protection seems more practical.
The designs are pretty cool overall and I agree a woman doesn’t need to show skin to be sexy, but I’d personally prefer tights/yoga pants to baggy khakis…Wonder Woman especially looks a little strange.
Well, they all look ready for winter at least. I could see a story line that explains these outfits, but some look down right silly. Zatanna looks like her father, Wonder Woman is just some normal Joe going to work but slapped on a Kevlar vest on before walking out. Black Canary looks like a “home gurl stoner” and the Super girls have this weird medieval times Knights look. Let’s try it! Someone write up a script! NOAW!
It’s about time these super heroines were given some decent costumes. The only problem I’ve got is with Wonder Woman’s pants. They clash with the rest of her colorful apparel.
Why is it that female characters tend to be “supposed to be seductive and sexy” and the men never are?
More like practically dressed :P. I do wish more characters were designed this way instead of being designed with sex appeal (through bareness) being so prioritized.
I don’t understand scantily dressing superheroes as these guys NEED clothes that protect their bodies from a lot of major harm that comes from fighting bad guys.
Actually, any time somebody comments on sexualized super heroines somebody else comes in to say it’s equally true of the men.
There’s only one problem, and it’s that it’s not actually equally true of the men.
Does sex require sexism for you?
Pants under skirts may be silly in reality, but you do realize that Supergirl is a teenager who can fly?
Every panel with her being “Whew, just barely avoided a panty shot. To the reader. I guess those other people in the comic with her can see everything.” is kinda annoying.
So you can come up with a handful of male characters, including dipping outside of the genre, who are dressed the same way the female ones tend to be. All of whom have in-character reason for dressing like that (actually, it would probably make more sense if the Hulk didn’t wear as much as he did…).
At least two of which are most definitely NOT SEXY and are entirely inhuman, something that is never true of the women.
I don’t think you’re doing a very good job of showing how this is not a double standard.
Fully dressed black canary makes me think grown up kim possible with blonde hair.
Ok, now lets put all male superheroes in costumes like this.
Yeah that unrealistic armor really messes up the suspension of disbelief when it comes to people that can fly and have super powers. :P
This looks cool, but Zatanna and Black Canary look like their clothes are a couple sizes too big for them /:
A woman who wants to wear as little clothing as possible is one thing.
Almost all of the women in your fiction happening to want to wear as little clothing as possible (while zero men think like that) is something else entirely.
They all look excellent. Get with it Marvel and DC!
I love most of these, but Power Girl with no boob window? NO! Heresy! D:
Some are a little too baggy, and Wonder Woman kooks like she has on a pair of khakis. But most of the rest look pretty darn good.
So it wouldn’t be logical for a seductive, more promiscuous to wear more provocative things? You’re right, I don’t understand how to depict characters at all! What is wrong with me!? I’m not saying that they always would, but when that is a big part of the character wouldn’t it make sense for that to be their main attire? I think so.
Great designs! I think some of the pants look a little bulky compared to other superhero costumes, but I’d love to see some of these revisions actually adopted. The typical female superhero costume defies physics.
Most of them look good, but whats the point of Power Girl’s deep V-Neck if the usually open area is just going to be covered?
The problem is that they treat the women as sexual objects instead of heroes, which is what they are. Most male heroes are not dressed up like Chip n’ Dale’s dancers, so why should the females be?
Yeah, no one ever mentions how ridiculously romance novels portray men. Their shirts are always off or half off, and there’s no ‘average’ looking dudes… what’s up with that!?!
Oh right… those books contain fantasy material primarily for women, and it’s ok with me whatever fantasies they have, realistic or otherwise.
I have an issue with the designs. I know he was well intentioned but NONE of them reflect the character they were drawn for. And being ‘fully clothed’ is no excuse to draw them in ill-fitted, baggy sacks of clothing. I’m pretty sure Zatanna is classy enough to get her suits tailored.
If he wanted to stay away from skin-tight suits then I don’t understand why he didn’t do the same sort of thing with any 6 of the thousands of *male* superheroes who prance around in them.
I can find designs better suited towards the characters over at Project: Rooftop or on Livejournal. So no, I don’t think these female characters are ‘defined’ by their ‘immodest’ clothing. They’re defined by their actions, but their costumes can reflect their personalities and none of these do that.
Women are made into sexual objects in comics, even the heroines. This alienates a lot of women from reading comics because they are being told that this is not for them; that these comics are for men’s eyes, and so are they.
If you think that what turns a woman on is the fact that Batman is rich, you’ve got a lot more problems than thinking the way comic book women’s bodys are distorted and twisted to display their ginormous breasts and perfect asses simultaneously in their skin-tight half-costumes is okay.
I don’t see anything wrong with her costume. It looks like super hero attire. It’s interesting, unique, colorful. What’s wrong with it? Does it make her a slut because it’s a tad revealing(but pretty on par to the skin tight suits male heroes wear)? Because it doesn’t fit your definition of what you find acceptable? Well I’d say that makes you more against women than you’re making me out to be.
The point isn’t “no women can enjoy comics because of this” — it’s that “this is bad for the culture, here’s how we can fix it.” But there’s no reason we can’t still enjoy the stories, or why YOU shouldn’t. You’re allowed to like problematic things.
I agree entirely. In trying to cover them up, the artist went too far in the other direction. Baggy clothes are not the kind of thing you wanna be wearing in a fight, and adding layers is going to do nothing but constrict their movements. There’s a reason why even most male heroes costumes are form-fitting.
I love this!! They look so bad-ass and pretty without falling out of their costumes. These look like they would be comfortable to wear in battle.
They actually TRIED to fully cover up Power Girl, and they tried to give Wonder Woman some pants, and people went insane!
I love these so much!
Def prefer them like this, they actully look a lot hotter.
I agree 100%. Who cares what they wear? If you don’t like what they wear, don’t read the comics.
Yeah, why did the artist put them all in baggy clothing? Especially Wonder Woman and Black Canary, who do flips and kicks and jump around. Don’t know why tights were mostly avoided, male heroes wear tights too.
Those pants are REALLY frumpy.
Electra and Psylocke look great, but I take issue with the rest of them. While dressing heroines in skimpy suits instead of battle gear is a terrible idea, putting them in baggy clothing that could get caught on things doesn’t help either. If he wanted to cover them up a bit, I’d think something like a chestplate would help. What better way to lessen the objectifying effect of the male gaze than to subvert it while maintaining realistic armour?
Because it’s people’s fantasies, and no one fantasizes about being a weak nerd, because that’s often the reality the person reading the comic is facing, and escaping from by reading said comic.
I have a problem with this. What’s the point of covering them up? Are women not allowed to show off their bodies if they want to? And if it was for defensive purposes, like armor, I get that but Wonder Woman and Psylocke are the only ones who look like they’re wearing anything remotely close to armor. The rest are just wearing annoying baggy pants and oversized jackets that they picked up at a Goodwill. Is it good fanart? Yes. Should they be the new standard of superheroine uniform? Hell no.
Against her non-existent will no less!
I’d rather people lighten up about the damn costumes and focus on producing good quality stories for the bad ass super heroines
Guys the whole point of the argument is why do the women HAVE to be scantily clad. Why do comic book women HAVE to be put in ridiculous outfits and have ridiculous fighting poses that clearly are meant to “show off the goods” to make that character worth anything. Because no matter how you look at it, a woman who is less clothed is always going to popular than a woman who is fully clothed like the ones above. Even in comic books, women are supposed to be “sexy” and scantily clad with giant boobs and butt = sexy. There’s a problem there.
Supergirl: The shirt is too long, should be trimmed at the waist.
Powergirl: Same problem as Supergirl. Looks like she’s wearing a lab coat. Coat should be trimmed at waist.
Wonder Woman: Pants are wrong color. Don’t mesh well with the rest of her uniform.
Black Canary: Do her pants really need to be THAT baggy?
Zatanna: Same problem as Black Canary, the pants look too big. Normal-fitting pants would look better.
Elektra, Psylocke, and Vampirella look great.
I was about to say the same thing. Now they are clothed far *more* than the men. Wonder Woman is wearing Dockers! And her head is too big. Psylocke and Elektra are closer to where it should be. Powergirl is third. I came here with the hopes of cheering these on, but if I wasn’t so stupidly busy I might give it an attempt myself.
The very fact that this is a debate is a double standard. The fine line people debate between objectification and shaming is outrageous and is something that, as a male, I can’t imagine dealing with on a day to day basis.
HOORAY!! Thats pretty AWESOME-TASTIC! I gatta say, it was a dark day for me personally when they stripped Harley Quinn apart. This makes me SMILE! ^_^
They all pretty much feel like themselves to me. I think they look fine. However, in the case of Black Canary and Vampirella, there’s a slight disconnect. Black Canary’s costume was a deliberate use of the showgirl look to create an iconic image – and perhaps throw off the bad guys. And in Vampirella’s case, here sensuality is actually an inherit part of her character, and her character is portrayed as such. Part of her point is that her outfit IS over the top. So the fully dressed version is lacking that sense of utter bonkers.
Am I overthinking this? Probably. But I suppose that I am suggesting that Black Canary was a sex object as a diversion, and being Sex object was largely the POINT of Vampirella.
Why does anything have to be anything? Why does there always HAVE to be a debate?
I didn’t think that Black Canary’s heavy trousers looked particularly battle ready for an expert martial artist. But Electra’s outfit is perfectly in character. But this is an exercise to make a point after all, so we’re nit-picking here.
No. The males aren’t scantily clad. They just make up for it with RAGING muscles and HUGE bulges. The problem is girls don’t actually read comics, they just go nuts whenever they see a picture of a sexy chick because it attacks their self-consciousness which is already statistically lower over all than that of males. You don’t see girls complaining about THOR who is Fabio with a hammer, Or how about this guy? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4b/Hyperionmarvel.png/250px-Hyperionmarvel.png Let’s face it. Comics exaggerate BOTH male and female. They’re both made into sexual objects but they’re done so equally. Get over it.
Why WOULDN’T you question the standards set by society. If we don’t question, we don’t change and if we don’t change, how are we to improve?
Said the person who has never been in a fight. Ever tried kicking above your head in sweatpants? Ever tried in skinny jeans? Plenty of martial artists wear baggy clothes, the fabric is really what matters.
My Opinion is that the majority of all female characters in comics (who were successful) were created in the golden age of comics which started in around 1942 during WW1 and at that time women’s rights weren’t really that established so women were channelled toward doing house work and girls to play with dolls, while the comic book market was almost completely male oriented. So as characters like “wonder woman” and “electra” were introduced, society accepted how they looked because people were still stupid enough to think women couldn’t do what men could. Since then these heroine’s costumes have become iconic and highly profitable. So most comic companies wouldn’t want to change their costumes for fear of the fans hating them for it. I mean how would you feel if they made Batman’s suit pink and yellow and only put a bat symbol on his helmet and then refused to change it back? I don’t know about you but I would be pissed off. So though I agree that these current heroine costumes are demoralizing and should not be so slutty, I’m not sure that the comic companies would change them for fear of a loss in profit.
ITT: people who don’t understand that male super hero characters are JUST AS SEXUALIZED as female ones. If you don’t like it, make your own super famous comic or stick to Disney. I appreciate the artist’s work here, it’s good art. It’s the babbling idiots complaining about gender bias that are ridiculous.
Geez Logan, flooding much? The point’s bloody well been made. Might as well write a blog article, bro. *blinking *
Who said anything needs improving?
Scantily clad, fully clothed. It’s fantasy, and it’s all the same to me. I accept the characters as their creators make them and if I don’t like them I don’t look at them.
I don’t even read comics lol, but I play video games and it’s the same crap different pile.
I’ll NEVER have a bum chin like THAT!
LOL DOCKERS!
Just my 2 cents but it seems like the artist took the idea of now showing skin to a puratanical level here. Everything has been covered except for head and hands. The idea itself is commendable (to make heroine costumes more practical and something not to attract the male gaze so much) but in this case, throwing on long sleeves and baggy pants is not the solution.
The two costumes that might work are the Psylocke and the Elektra as at least the costumes look sleek.
The Wonder Woman costume looks silly as hell with the pants on (an item of clothing that looks like it was put in their just to fulfill the promise of no skin being shown whatsover). Zatana’s costume is okay but takes away from the whole purpose of what the character is supposed to be. Black Canary’s costume looks like it was a rejected Batgirl costume from the Stephanie Brown phase,
Perhaps the artist should consider putting the characters in leggings if the worry of showing too much leg is so bad, but baggy pants and superheroics don’t mix.
Meh, the only one I like is Wonder Women. The design makes more sense because she’s a warrior.
I believe that empowered women can be sexy without being objectified.
good. some have a little too much fabric, but it irked me as a kid thought the females were always drawn to satisfy men’s prurient interests. At the time i didn’t know the word , prurient, but i sure knew the intent.
Except she could color co-ordinate her damn pants.
It was the use of the word “retard” that did it for me.
My turn. While we’ve shoveled a lot of electrons over the discussion of practicality, fashion, visual storytelling and marketing gender bias there is something to be said for the CRAFT of better storytelling, visual or otherwise.
One of the challenges of Fantasy ad Science fiction and she subgenere of superhero comics, is that we’re asked to swallow some outrageous s**t in every tale. In the Silver age Stan Lee stumbled on the idea that if comic book characters behaved more like actual people, with problems and insecurities like the rest of us… but with superpowers… and then plunged into extraordinary situations, we’re relate better to them. He was right and Marvel sold MILLIONS of issues, later DC caught on and the legendary Neil Adams/Denny O’Neil Green Lantern/Green Arrow received both fan love AND critical acclaim by it;s realistic portrayal of real-world issues and situations.
But it’s a fragile thing. Sometimes when I see an outfit on a female hero that would SO not work… it can break that delicate and necessary “suspension of disbelief” that is already stretched thin as the Skrull fleet bears down. This is particularly a problem with the “armor” of female fantasy characters. There are times practical outfits work better, for the sake of a more convincing story.
But sometimes the meme can be turned on it’s head. I am reminded of a Batgirl scene back in the late 60s/early 70s where she’s in the climactic dust up with Batman and Robin and a HERD of thugs, vastly outnumbered and they’re LOSING. She strikes a pose and pretends to inspect a run in her tights, showing off an athletic leg. The thugs, less disciplined than our heroes, are distracted enough for the critical ass-kicking. Batgirl is of course promptly back in the thick of it too.
But that was a moment of VERY self aware writing. Shiny. But it was an age where DC wasn’t too worried about being taken too gorram seriously.
what’s up with the wonder woman khaki’s though? looks like lazy cosplay.
Adds a bit of mystery to the girls
How about because she wants to? Because that’s how she envisions the character? I find a lot of your ideas about why women would do this sexist.
I’m also a straight guy and greatly prefer these versions. I think I also noticed something telling… After looking up some of the characters I wasn’t familiar with, I couldn’t take the originals seriously AT ALL. After seeing the above, the real versions really looked liked they are running around in their underwear. Like a silly lingerie ad. Take fully dressed Zantanna – she just looks more… respectable. New Psylocke looks more dangerous. Electra more like a ninja. Vampirella more like an ancient vampire (over a runaway stripper).
I think I can more easily be in awe of their power. More likely to believe they could snap my neck. Otherwise it’s probably analogous to watching me give a presentation without my trousers.
Hardly. You have legitimate points to make.
However, note my point concerning appropriateness of the costume to the character. It should work in a practical sense, suit- and say something about the character’s personality that comes across in the visual language of comics, and also look good, essentially *heroic.* These are still works of fantasy to an important degree.
What about the females who like it as is?
I am a female who never had a problem with the original outfits. That said, too many of these seem like they’ve taken the fully-covered idea too far…to the point that some of these layered things could actually impede the type of movement these gals are known for using/needing in their line of work.
Japan has been doing this with their female characters for years.
Ive seen low brow harem shows with more modestly dressed women than what you find in American comic books.
Uh…don’t even start with the “girls don’t actually read comics” B.S. I am decidedly female and have avidly read them since I was old enough to read. I just didn’t expect superheroes to look like the people I saw every day. In that, I agree with you that comics exaggerate both sexes. Me, I always those with dirty minds would take it there no matter what they’re wearing. Those who were there for the story wouldn’t.
It makes sense for them to have muscles though. They have to be in shape in order to do what they do. It actually makes sense for them to have big muscles, maybe not as much as they do, but still.
If he wasn’t trying to “push” why label them as fully clothed? Why not just Alternate costumes? I like the costumes. all of them. just saying
As I said on Fackbook about this… We are back to what Fredric Wertham, the Comics Code Authority, and the 1954 Senate Subcommittee wanted. Weeeee….
Perhaps we can get the men depicted on the covers of Romance Novels back into their shirts or even bussiness casual.
Since when does full dressed mean wearing pants? Wonder woman in brown pants !?!?!? And those moon boots on Black Canary are awful. I did think that Elektra, Psylocke, and Vampirella were particularly good.
Show us your ti-…ah, God, stop beating me!
There’s a large difference in the muscles you would develop from being a superhero and the body builder like ones pictured in comic books however.
Yes. Alas, men want women. Well, most of them. Who knew? And as for female comic readers: they are not the majority. But with the new comics movies have lured in a lot of girls, and so has the general “geek” culture that has been blossoming for some time now. I just don’t think it’s fair that women can have Fifty Shades and romance novels where men have the personalities of sponges and then they point fingers at comics that were largely geared towards teenaged boys.
No. You are mistaking “sexual fantasy” for “power fantasy.” Many superheroines and their costumes are designed to titillate male readers – I think everyone can pretty much agree on that point. Male superheroes, however, are not designed to titillate female readers. I know many men find this hard to believe, but most women are NOT actually attracted to bulging, steroidal musclebeasts. Male superheroes are not designed to appeal to female readers, they are designed to appeal to MALE readers. Male superheroes are muscular and powerful because MEN want to BE muscular and powerful. Female superheroes are impossibly voluptuous and scantily-clad because MEN want to HAVE impossibly voluptuous and scantily-clad women.
Comics do exaggerate both men and women, but they are both exaggerated in ways that appeal, in general, to men and not to women.
Also, I wasn’t aware that Kzinhome imported human media, but just so you’re aware, here on planet Earth, women DO read comics. And they criticize the rampant sexism poisoning the comics industry because it is offensive and alienating (and, in the long term, poor business strategy), not because they have “statistically lower self esteem” (lol).
Why is your opinion of comic books influenced by how women dress? >.>
You know as far as costume designs go, I would have preferred this power girl over what they made for the New 52
Yeah, they kinda look like she’s wearing khakis.
What? I’m a sucker for the “casually-dressed” hero.
Not entirely true. Have you ever seen Asian martial arts films? The baggy clothes can assist in a fight because they conceal the movements of the fighter and they can also distract the opponent. Also, baggy clothes can be used to conceal weapons. One downside is that they can get in the way (if you don’t know how to move in them) or someone can use them against you. Also, most male figures have capes, which, like extra layers (if done correctly), can add flare.
For some reason, the re-draw of Black Canary looks kinda cool. I don’t know why, though…
Wow they look better
WOW! Some of these are REALLY GOOD! I like Elektra and Powergirl best. Supergirl and Wonder Woman’s pants should be a different color. Wonder Woman looks like she borrowed her pants from Indiana Jones.
In Fifty shades and harlequin-style romance novels, women also have the personality of sponges. That genre in general at least as full of harmful, sexist stereotypes as the comic industry. Women who critique comics for sexism and objectification usually don’t read that kind of romance (if they read romance at all) and are usually very aware of the problematic nature of most of those novels.
Not bad, I could see them actually being realistic with some minor changes. Like Black Canary, honestly i think she would be better very modest tight spandex, like how Zoe Saldana’s outfit was in the scene in jail in Columbiana, just because it would fully dressed, modest but it would serve an ultimate functional purpose.
Capes are over rated in super heroes… when you try doing some sort of fighting, wrestling or something with a cape you get totally hindered by the cape, but then again its all about appearances instead of functionality in the comic designs i feel.
I’m going to let Shortpacked! explain it for me: http://www.shortpacked.com/2011/comic/book-13/05-the-death-of-snkrs/falseequivalence/
Oh my god, you’re so right! How could I never have seen it before? How could I have thought that the wage gap, increasing restrictions on women’s bodies and access to basic healthcare, rampant rape and sexual harassment, domestic abuse, lack of representation in government, social enforcement of impossible beauty standards, and constant hypersexualization in all mainstream media were serious issues when the portrayal of men in romance novels makes some dudes feel weird??? How can I forgive myself for believing that actual prejudice perpetuated by deeply entrenched systems of oppression could compare with dudes feelings skeeved out by $5 paperbacks?
Of course I have no right to complain about female portrayal in comics, one of the countless symptoms of such structural oppression, when so many men yet labour under the crushing yoke of romance novels! How selfish of me! Clearly these two things are totally and completely equivalent and absolutely untainted by any iota of historical, cultural, or sociopolitical context!
Thank you, Rune. Thank you for showing me the light. Henceforth I renounce all my wicked feminist ways, and beg forgiveness from all the men I have wronged with my support of the publication of literary material regarding gross ladyfeelings.
Some work, some don’t. Elektra and Psylocke make sense and are done well. Its easy to imagine a ninja with full form fitting gear. It’s rather odd to see a female ninja in lingerie (and other superheros for that matter), which is actually what most of the conceptions have been. I think a good design works well when the super hero’s concept, as in what their abilities are, and what their story emphasizes gets worked into what they wear. In short, dress for the job.
These designs are really cool. though not all allow the freedom of movement that the more scanty outfits allow, most are rather practical and really cool looking.
The comic and gaming industry take female actionstars seriously. Hollywood never did!
The issue is not what the clothes say about the character, but what they say about the AUTHOR.
A female character can be both strong and sexy. She can wear revealing clothing and not be a lesser person because of it. And it is possible to write “femme fatales” who are actually interesting, compelling characters and not just two-dimensional, oversexualized male fantasies. These are absolutely true, and I would never deny them.
However, when I pick up a comic book and I see a horrifically contorted blow-up doll dressed in fishnets and electrical tape on the cover, and I flip through the comic and see the same thing for EVERY FEMALE CHARACTER, I don’t think, “wow, I am excited to read this comic with all these women who are sexy but also probably powerful and complex! I bet they get really interesting character development and cool plots focusing on their personal struggles and growth as people!” Because that kind of art sends a very clear message, and that message is: this comic is not for women. This comic is for men. The female characters in this story are sexual and romantic objects for the male characters, and they drive the story only insofar as they motivate the men. They are sexualized to appeal to the male view, rather than as a carefully-considered aspect of their personality. This comic is intended to narratively and visually appeal exclusively to men.
Of course this is not ALWAYS true. Sometimes, perhaps even often, this is an unfair assessment. And I do know that comics are produced collaboratively, and the illustrators may be at fault rather than the writers.
Unfortunately, more often than not, art portraying wildly oversexualized female characters indicates a story marred by sexist tropes, underdeveloped and unrelatable female characters, and a very clear assumption of the maleness of the reader.
So why spend my money on it? If I’m just looking to pick up a random new comic, why would I take a chance on something that has a pretty significant chance of offending and alienating me, when I can buy something that looks like it actually has a good chance of appealing to me?
Like it or not, art does correlate with story. Comics are a visual medium, and you CAN, at least to some extent, judge a comic by its cover.
The question is posed “do they feel the same” and I would say no. They feel much more serious and…well…heroic. So, all good in my book!
I understand the effort but the bagginess on most of these is going to another extreme. Would you draw Spider-Man in a baggy suit too? Vampirella, Psylocke, and Elektra look like they belong in comics. Everything else looks like some parody taken too seriously.
As a girl who reads comics to READ them… lolwut.
What do you know. They almost look like real people who often encounter dangerous situations.
I don’t think you even read his post.
The funny thing about this post is that when they wear their actual attire, which is mostly skimpy and/or revealing, they actually DO often encounter dangerous situation! ;)
They still have strong appearances.
If you eliminate the sex factor, you can draw them the way you want, and not have to worry about censorship or invidious angles.
They still maintain their natural charisma, and strong appearance.
The thing that nobody realize, is that you CAN combine sexappeal, strenght, credibility, and still maintain tastefulness for the entire demographic.
Specially those dressed for tango.
Suspension of disbelief works for the fantastic elements in a story (if they are put together well). It doesn’t work for the realistic, everyday realities. It is especially important in a work with a lot of fantasy aspects to keep the everyday in order or the whole thing will unravel in the reader’s mind. Just because a work contains fantasy as a point of plot and character doesn’t mean nothing else has to make any sense!
Have you ever worn a “scanty” outfit? Freedom of movement in a corset and daisy-dukes? I don’t think so.
Oh please god, can we? Seriously. Someone needs to put those pecks away.
I only don’t like Powergirl and Wonder Woman. Just don’t like the costumes. But the rest are phenominal. Elektra, Psylock, and Black Canary make MORE sense to me dressed like this.
I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what happened here.
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn250/paawkx/cant-fap-to-this-93819.jpg
They’re alright… I don’t mind having my super heroines fully clothed, but some of these designs simply aren’t aesthetically pleasing. For instance, Wonder Woman could be in a suit of armor instead of looking like she’s wrapped up in a poorly stitched American flag…
Also, it’s important to note that some heroines are empowered by their sexuality and attractiveness, and use it as a weapon (i.e. Emma Frost), so even some of the girls depicted here do lose some of their power, strength, and character.
They’re alright… I don’t mind having my super heroines be fully clothed, but some of these designs simply aren’t aesthetically pleasing. For instance, Wonder Woman could be in a suit of armor instead of looking like she’s wrapped up in poorly stitched American flag.
Also, it’s important to note that some heroines are empowered by their sexuality and attractiveness, and use it as a weapon (i.e. Emma Frost), so even some of the girls depicted here do lose some of their power, strength, and character.
Addi: Psst- comics aren’t real! The functionality of their costumes is what the author makes it out to be, regardless of real-world constraints. Instead of having the villain’s blade slice open the superheroine’s exposed stomach, they have it deflected, or miss, or scratch her. The outfit acts exactly as desired. Supergirl isn’t going to skin a knee due to high heeled boots. All you do by removing their sexuality is remove a pivotal connection with the character for all men (and of course, some women!)
Pat, there’s a world of difference between embracing sexuality instead of conservative prudishness, and sexism. Note I didn’t call for male superheroes to be covered up, nor did I ask for double standards regarding women and men. THAT is sexism. Hiding skin because too many Americans find sexuality taboo? THAT is conservative prudishness, and like all things conservative, it must die, as it has no worth and is only detrimental to fully living a healthy human experience- of which sexuality is the cornerstone. (Life = love/intimacy/sex/companionship.)
Fantastic! All that’s left to do now is add some racial diversity.
Before you write women characters you should really learn more about women as humans instead of stereotypes. For example, many women who wear provocative clothing are not seductive or promiscuous (and those aren’t the same thing anyway- you can be one without being the other). Many women who are seductive and/or promiscuous do not wear provocative clothing. There is not as much correlation there as stereotypes would lead you to believe. Dressing a certain way isn’t just about attracting sexual/romantic partners. There are also many social and psychological factors to consider, as well as personal taste and practicality.
Love these. I’ve always been a Wonder Woman fan, but I never understood why she had to save the world in her underwear.
Pointing out the fact that sexism exists and that women must find ways to live in a world where it does is not sexist. Also, sexism is mainly a structural force. It’s not just about (or even mainly about) individual men oppressing individual women. It’s about men and women being socialized into an oppressive patriarchal system and most of them participating in/reinforcing that system, often without being consciously aware they are doing it. Women are very capable of perpetuating sexism and even more so of internalizing the male gaze. Happens every day.
They all basically look winterized, except for Zatanna who
looks like a girl wearing her dad’s tux.
Many Pro Wrestlers (Male and Female) literally wear these type of outfits because of the freedom of movement. I tend to look at many super hero outfits similarly as Pro Wrestlers when it comes to the material.
I’m one of a million more female comic book readers. I donno why I bother reading the comments. Some folks are stuck in a time that didn’t exist. I love well written comics, and I really appreciate different artists takes on the characters. AND I love the idea of having more comics to support that DON’T have absolutely ridiculous sexist mockups of lady heroes and villians in twisty impossible ass up poses. If it makes sense for the char to be in a hot lycra outfit, cool. Birds of Prey struck a pretty good balance. Anyway, welcome to 2013, douchebags. Thankfully most of the commenters are relatively with it.
Sometimes it’s cold out!
Really now, so I’m guessing a shy female character would dress provocatively then? I mean, perhaps if she had selfesteem issues and wanted to be liked for the wrong reasons,perhaps she just wanted to be noticed, but other then that, if she was to be a shy, withdrawn character who wanted to be left alone she would more than likely dress very “modestly” or as normally as possible so as to blend in and be forgotten. There are numerous factors that might go into her personality or character, but you pick the strongest and design a character around that, or at least I do anyways. Sometimes you can throw a wild ball but in my experience that feels awkward. You want the people who are looking at your character to understand her through appearance, posture, expression, everything.
I personally think your statement about “women being the opposite of what they wear” is pulled directly out of your ass. I’m sure in some cases it’s this way, especially with teenagers, but I’m pretty sure that women, being human beings, have some logic behind what they wear.
You know what’s sad? My first reaction to this was, “They look ridiculously covered up.” It is so foreign to see female super heroes wearing clothes that the idea seems totally bizarre and jarring. And they’re just WEARING CLOTHES.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbX653kznRc
Strange thing to say about harem anime.
someone draw a fully dressed witchblade ;-)
I agree they should show LESS skin . . . but this seems just as impractical as the original costumes. You would overheat in those through half the year. One thing if they aren’t showing belly or thighs, but ever heard of SHORTS?
Objectification of women as entertainment for men is oppression (suppression is something else…). This is the same line I get from MRAs defending sex tourism and implying that male sexuality is naturally predatory and any critique of the harm it causes is oppressive to men. This should be offensive to decent men. Patriarchal ideas about men and women are harmful to both men and women. This definitely includes some popular types of romance novels, but not all women like those novels. Some of us prefer comics, see more worth keeping in comics and hero tales and would like those stories to portray us more realistically as full humans (sexual, but not sexualized, subjects instead of objects). I would also like male bodies in comics to be more realistic for the ways in which they live and work/fight. Even aside from all of the social/psychological implications, the unrealistic, stereotypical way both sexes are portrayed in many comics is bad writing and can stock me out of a story at times because it just doesn’t make logical sense within the story or for the character.
Also, you are right that jock/frat culture has direct links to rape culture and sexism in general (and entitlement issues that cause bullying and hate crimes). But nerd culture can be pretty sexist too, and the backlash against pointing it out when it happens can and does result in death and rape threats. Look up “nice guy” syndrome for what rape culture is more likely to look like in nerds.
Some of these are really nice (Supergirl, Elektra, Psylocke, Vampi), but a couple of them feel really forced to the point of not fitting the character. PG looks like a pirate, Wonder Woman’s outfit doesn’t fit her background, and Zatanna’s, while not terrible, misses the entire point of her classic design (a problem I also have with the current New 52 design).
I’ve seen plenty of feminist critiques of of the sexism within traditional romance novels (including the stereotypical men and women on the front cover), including the newer resurgences of their ilk, Twilight and 50 Shades. Reading these novels increases traditional, sexist views in women who read them (there are even studies on this topic).
But you’ve also go to realize that, as valid as those critiques are, there is a vital difference. Romance novels are basically porn. Comics (most comics) are not. Porn standards (as problematic as they often are) should not be the standards of general lit or comics aimed at a much wider (and younger) audience.
There’s a novel idea. Let’s appeal to real, long term fans instead of
fleeting cover collectors.
http://sweattshop-graphic-artist.blogspot.com/
Why does everything to do with females have to involve appearances? Improving appearance, judging appearance, etc. Why can’t girls just be people and the same goes for superheroes. It shouldn’t matter whether they’re covered up or not or what their costume is or what their body is like. I think a male or a female super hero should just be cool, that’s it.
Great designs! Especially a fan of Zatana and Wonder Woman. They look more badass this way.
…I read comics and I’m a girl. :(
These are magnificent. They look so much more like the SUPER HEROES they are supposed to be. Honestly, they’re even more beautiful this way. Perhaps they lack the ‘sex’ factor, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
Supergirl and Wonder Woman look really Off. The pants stand out and don’t match the rest of the outfit. The rest of them look good.
I LOVE THAT WONDERWOMAN OH MAH GAWSH!!
Fully Dressed Vampirella. I chuckled.
kevlar armor is less effective if worn loosely. I would also like to point out that not all movement is equal. The primary type of action that will be preformed should determine what a hero wears.
Actually, yes, I have. My Power Girl costume is SUPER comfortable and easy to move in as is my Black Canary and the only reason my Wonder Woman costume isn’t is due to the armored belt not the corset of the star spangled panties. So yes, freedom of movement.
i’m not sure how comparable our fighting forces are to superhumans who can fly, run fast, and maybe invulnerable.
Olympic runners, gymnasts and track and field athletes and even some dancers as well.
I note that none of the reasons you listed included the possibility that a female artist may genuinely like ‘that kind’ of costume and feel that it is appropriate for her character. In your scenario, the only reason a woman might design a costume like that is because she is unenlightened or misogynistic. I’m sorry, but that just seems like some pretty unenlightened reasoning. It’s pretty much a declaration that if that artist does not hold the same opinion as you that they are sexist.
it’s a mark of how deeply engrained objectification is in our concept of ‘sexy’ that you think some of these women are not sexy anymore.
… wow, awkward sentence! But still, I see much sexiness in these characters.
Possibly because they no longer look like they spend half their income and time trying to market themselves for men who might happen to pass them on the street.
I think these look nice, and i think some should be implemented (aka Zatana) but some look like they would mess with a character’s agility (aka Wonder Woman). seriously though, Power Girl needs a symbol. like now
Looks good to me. Given, I don’t know who half of these characters are anyway, but if I did I’m quite sure I’d still appreciate it. What’s with the scanty clothing on superheroines anyway? To me it’s always mostly looked silly, hence I prefer this.
Though I agree, I disagree. The only difference is men are different than women so different things make them sexual objects. Eg: I don’t think it’s a coincidence all the male superheroes wear skintight spandex and are ripped beyond belief whether strength is their power or not. So I agree, but it needs to stop on both sides. Wonder Woman needs a shirt under her armor (pants would restrict her movement too much, just saying) and Batman needs kevlar.
baggy clothes make it easier to be grappled. We see athletes everyday wear “tight” clothing without having their movement restricted, compression wear promotes circulation allowing muscles to work more efficiently.
Oh come now! We all know what the solution is; scantily clad MALE superheroes! Y’know, to level it all out…..eh?
They all look pretty good, though Wonder Woman looks like she’s wearing Khaki’s under her armor for pants. I think it would go better if she had a more theme appropriate color for those pants, or if she were wearing more Greek styled leggings.
leather is also hard to move in, if you have ever worn a motorcycle jacket you would see that the range of motion is very limited.
yeah I’m not sure what the poster meant by that. Anyone reading the current Vampirella comic knows she wears pants 90% of the time.
don’t worry, you would stop shortly after. Changing the costumes wouldn’t make the writing any better. lets keep in mind we are only discussing “superhero” comics. There are hundreds of other well written, non-objectifying comics being published today. If you aren’t reading comics like Saga, Glory and Revival you are a part of the problem.
“The problem is girls don’t actually read comics….” You just invalidated your entire argument with this statement. “Girls”, that is to say women of all ages very much DO read comics. We also write them and draw them.
that is close to what she wears in the current comic.
” skin tight clothing would either tear up as they moved”
hyperbole, the Olympics would be much more interesting to watch if this were true.
I’m not a fan of the Wonder Woman design, but the rest are pretty good.
Loving it! Actually makes them seem more relatable. It works wonderfully on all of them except on Wonder Woman. The color and shape of her pants seem a bit out of place. I also kinda miss the boob-window on power-girl…
Psylocke and Elektra are pretty awesome. The rest are terrible.
In shape, yes. Huge muscles, no. I point out Bruce Lee. He lifted weights and ate a healthy and appropriate diet; Bruce Lee conditioned his body not to be a bulky body builder like Arnold Schwarzenegger but to be a very able-body fighter proving that muscle size does not equate to striking power. It’s a size vs. speed ratio and physics. Weight of limb or force behind the impact plus speed. There are muscles that slow you down, like your biceps, and muscles that speed you up, like your triceps. Both give you weight but you’ll never hit if you are not swift. Of course this is a simplistic explanation as the body is composed of many moving parts that work together. What I mean to say is: train your body to perform the skills you desire.
I read in a ‘How to draw comic book characters’ book that they insist that you remove the ribs(floating ribs) which makes the females more curvy or the females will look sickly. The book also had a lack of understanding of body types in both males and females.
*Geek Moment Alert*
There are some good ideas here. A few work for me, some . . . work less. I know that if I’m anticipating anything
combat-oriented, I feel better less dressed . . . or, failing that, wearing
clothing designed for combat. If sparring,
for instance, I’d rather wear gi pants and a tank top than a long-sleeve shirt
and slacks. So, I like his Electra and
Psylocke, Electra more than Psylocke.
(I’ve never understood the whole
stripes-of-cloth-on-the-bare-limbs thing.
As you move around and muscles contract and release, those bands would
shift; so the old designs I hold as wildly impractical)
I do prefer the Black Canary and Zantanna, though – fishnet
has never been practical for the ultra-violence. /Gad,/ do I prefer Zantanna. Black Canary would be best, though, with something
more form-fitting and flexible. When she
does enter combat, there’s a lot of acrobatics.
Supergirl, Wonder Woman and Powergirl look overdressed to me. Even if their strengths weren’t in danger of
destroying their outfits just by moving too fast during exertion (which they
would be – Hell, /I’ve/ done that), there’s nothing wrong with a person showing
off a little. Hercules didn’t pick his
outfit in a fit of self-loathing.
Neither did Power Girl.
Wonder Woman wearing armor over that much cloth looks a
little awkward to me. It may at first
glance look pragmatic, but while army personnel don’t wear leotards, that’s
because they don’t move like Olympic gymnasts and acrobats in combat. Many super-heroes do.
Ultimately, the more physically powerful a character is, and
the more damage coming their way, the less useful clothing becomes. When your own skin offers better protection
than an extra layer of cloth or even kevlar, excess costuming just gets in the
way.
So, if it were me, I’d keep Zantanna /exactly/ as she is
shown here. Likewise Electra, and though
I might make Psylocke’s outfit just a wee bit more like Electra’s in its cut,
it also works well for me. Black Canary
needs more form-fitting clothes: baggy trousers don’t suit her movement style.
The three physical powerhouses, though, just aren’t
practical. Supergirl and Powergirl look
like they’re going to shred their costumes as soon as they exert themselves
(and why wear pants with a skirt?). Though
I do like the torso designs, I think their limbs should be bare. Likewise Wonder Woman, though I do like the
sash idea. And all three of them also
strike me as women who would be of the opinion that they are beautiful, that
they enjoy their beauty (especially Diana), and anyone who doesn’t like it can
lump it.
*End Geek Moment*
–Coyote
i like these ones WAAAY better
It’s actually the Wonder Woman outfit that is the only one I didn’t like, personally. The armoured chestplate design is great, but then I find myself wondering why you’d partner it with khakis – following the design through the leg, possibly with either an athletic legging, or even a fully-armoured outfit that almost turned her into and unmasked version of Iron Woman would surely give a better result.
Personally, I can’t take any story with Powergirl seriously because every time I see her I think, “How does she keep them from bouncing out?”
Wonder Woman looks okay. The Super Girl model will NOT fly! However, the new Cpt. ( Ms ) Marvel looks sweet though… :-)
Oooo! The Vampirella and the Zatanna are gorgeous! Where can I get those dresses? :-)
Absolutely hideous.
Adorable. You’ve managed to make yourself the victim no matter what. Like girl’s don’t want to be attractive or have super powers. It goes both ways or it goes neither way.
Atomic Robo is really excellent for light-hearted sci-fi adventure, too.
For an example of a well-made Marvel or DC story, try the Superman graphic novel Red Son. It explores what would have happened if Superman’s rocket fell to Earth just hours later than it did in the “real” DC universe and he landed in the Soviet Union.
I _really_ like the Wonder Woman and Elektra outfits! Wonder Woman looks armoured, and Elektra looks dressed for stealth!
It is probably worth pointing out that for someone like Batman or Black Canary things like bullets or environmental conditions are problems to be taken into consideration when choosing material, but people like Superman or Wonder Woman don’t have to think like that.
That having been said, Big Barda doesn’t really have to worry about those things either, and her costume is pretty much head to toe and I’ve always thought it worked pretty well, so a female hero can do the fully clothed look and pull it off. I don’t think it should be an across the board rule, but it’s certainly a choice that should be available to artists.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/33935/1018826-brd.jpg
I dont think you are getting the point here, these wasnt´made to be appeling/attractive to men.
This was made just beacuse superwomens are always depicted as sexobjects. This was made to show that it doesnt have to be that way,
Is it me or is Supergirl wearing Dr. Stranges’ costume? Also, Wonder Womans’ pants seem out of place. Zatanna is also a excessively baggy, but other than that I love these, especially Elektra.
I always thought it seemed ridiculous that ANY superhero would run around in shorts, even Robin. Wonder Woman briefly had an outfit with pants and a jacket and I was excited to see comics head in that direction. The trend didn’t seem to last. I wonder if DC saw sales drop as clothing was added.
I dare anyone to dress like that, and then perform High kicks, cartwheels, and other stunts superheroes do regurarly. Its not a coincidence gymnasts and athletes wear almost to no clothing.
With that said, Sure comics arent real, and yes, the female superheros often do have high heels, which is contradictory to my point.
And with that said there is a third point. Its entertainmnet. We all know the women body is oh so beutiful. 90% of the guys love it and 30-40% of the women love it too. So ofc comicbook artist portrays the female superheros as beutiful and sexy as they can while they confidently kick the supervillans ass out the door.
The POINT I think I wanto tell is that How superheroes look in cartoons, doesnt reflect AS MUCH on people’s behaviour, selfview, view on others, AS MUCH AS photoshopped models posing, staring you down, dressed very beutiful and sexy, trying to sell that perfume, or that eyeliner from a billboard that you see averyday on your way from/to work.
Comic superheroes lack of clothes is not aproblem in comparison.
I’m bi and I feel that way with guys aswell as with girls. =]
I’m a girl-thing, and I didn’t like the Wonder Woman one, either. Something about the pants were weird. Everything else was playful and sexier than the originals. Good work!
“The average male” prefers more scantily-clad females. Males who prefer women to be more fully clothed are the exception, not the rule. But that makes you exceptional, which is good.
Red Sonja’s chain mail bikini usually gets dragged into these discussions, so I thought Conan’s furry diaper was relevant, but I’ll happily leave Conan out.
Yes, there’s a lot of sexism in comics. It’s an adolescent genre. But if you’re playing fair, you have to acknowledge that characters like Namor have been nearly naked since they were created in the 1940s, that Robin bared his legs for decades, etc. Superhero costumes were inspired by circus costumes, which are either sexist or sexy, depending on the designer and the audience.
So have a number of the women in comics. Wonder Woman had her white jumpsuit, Supergirl has had many costumes, etc. It is true that there’ve been more prudish redesigns of male costumes than female ones.
Now I’m feeling a bit guilty for making fun of Power Girl’s boob window. There are female cosplayers who love that costume.
I agree to the premise that male superheros do, at least, need to be in shape. And, as long as we are going with “what makes sense” in order to do what they do, what woman on the planet would show up to a fight in a bakini when she could wear normal, more protective clothing that doesn’t make her wonder if she might expose herself mid-punch? That was what always bothered me while reading comics. And, being a girl who actually is involved in martial arts of many forms, I would never be caught dead in what superheroines usually wear in comics. Particularly if I might need to defend myself. These I could imagine.
True. On the other hand, the new 52 Wonder Woman is fully dressed anyway.
Very cool. DC’s heroine Saturn Girl was modestly dressed in the 60s, but then got stripped down in the 70s.
I am not attacked to overly muscled men (like the photo you posted). However, on a complete different line of thought, the women’s outfits are also impractical. “I’m going to go fight a bad guy… what to wear, what to wear? Oh, how about my matching metal underwear set, four-inch heels and a cape. Perfect.” Because the bad guy never aims for the arms, legs or stomach.
My reaction: meh, they’re redesigns, some are good, some could use some more work. I like Wonder Woman’s having more armor, it makes sense for a WARRIOR based culture, but her BROWN pants clash terribly with the color scheme for her entire outfit; I have a problem with Super Girl’s halter-top-over-spandex thing and I feel like it would have been better as just a single piece (personally not a fan of short-sleeves-over-long-sleeves, so that’s just me); that said, I do like Power Girl because her white…bodice(?) is more like a form-fitting jacket over a shirt. I also really like Canary’s more “street” feel. Don’ really like Zatanna’s coat, seems necessary. No opinion on Elektra or Psy, they’re okay. My only problem is with Vampirella. Now, I don’t have any first hand experience with her, so all my information is based on her wikipedia article: My problem is that her outfit isn’t sexy, no it doesn’t have to be a sling and you can be fully clothed and sexy, but one of her powers and modus operendi is of SEDUCTION of her targets (male ones at least), and even if it is a magical/telepathic seduction, the willingness to use/rely on it suggests a personality that would extend the seduction to their physical appearance as well. All the other heroines were dressed that way as a play of exploitation from their original artists with no justification “in world”, whereas Vampirella (while still being born of exploitation, because as I said, you can still be sexy, even sexier, fully clothed) actually does have an in world reason to dress that way. So yeah, redesigning heroines to be less exploitative is cool, but they still need to consider WHY the character would dress that way.
Interesting. Some of these designs work for the character, others don’t.
As-is, the designs placed here for Vampirella, Power Girl, Super Girl, Psylocke, Black Canary and Electra REALLY work for the characters. They’re stylish, evoke much of the same spirit as the original outfits, and are clearly designed with a basis in practicality and/or awesomeness as opposed to titillation.
However, I found that the outfits for Zatanna and Wonder Woman didn’t really work for me. Strangely enough, the problem is not that I wish they were more revealing; it’s simply other design elements. The giant pants on Zatanna are somewhat humorous, which may be the point, but overall it just makes her feel like Chaplin in a longcoat to me. Maybe just a slimmer pants design would make her outfit work (I do really like the rest of her outfit though).
As for Wonder Woman, the top half of her outfit is awesome, but the bottom half? Less so. Right below the molded armor is where I start to see problems (I actually like the molded armor fine). First, what may or may not be a skirt. For some reason it looks like a folded sweater to me, which is kinda random. Maybe just clean up the sides of it. Secondly, the khakis. I can imagine a mighty warrior wearing many things, but khakis? Seriously? If you must go for a commercially-normal type of pants, use jeans. At least THOSE are designed to take a beating. Lastly, the boots here look kinda floppy. It might simply be that they’re actually leather and have finally undergone enough wear to become flexible (which I understand), but due to the coloring and texturing they appear to simply be cloth boots, which don’t really mesh with the armor
In any case, the lack of skin neither makes nor breaks these designs. For the most part, they’re simply really good designs that reflect the characters.
Eh. I’m kinda in love with the Supergirl and Power Girl designs, myself.
I think they look great, especially the 5 after Wonder Woman. I think the Supergirl and Wonder Woman look a bit forced with the pants, but otherwise I think they’re great. I think Wonder Woman’s costume being such a classic, as well as her being an Amazonian, makes it a lot more believable that she’d wear something so ‘revealing’…but hers should be the exception, not the norm. I’ve noticed a trend lately with female heroes (Hope, X-23, Batwoman) where functionality trumps skimpiness, and hopefully its a trend that continues. Again, there’s a place for skimpy costumes, as characters like Catwoman etc. are using their sexuality as a weapon, but for the most part, the vast majority of female heroes should be wearing costumes like these. Great job Mr. Lunsford!
Skin doesn’t hurt, but a real life Electra would have left several pounds of flesh on the pavement/walls/surfaces where she have been thrown/fallen in alla battles. There is a reason for motorbikes to wear full body protection gear instead of bathing suits. And the invernuable heroines would prefere to be taken seriously by guards/policemen/whoever they have to convince within 30 seconds to defeat the bad guy instead of beeing seen as runaways from a strip club. But comics are aimed at boys in the 8-15 demograpihc. Just look at comics as Preacher, Sandman or Fables with older readers – far less scanty clad women.
Wicked. I would be happy and comfortable running around in these costumes. They actually look a lot like clothes I wear. Love the long tops with extra midriff-protecting power! ‘Cause you know, vital organs and stuff. Hooray for structure! Nicely done!
Also, there’s an element of classiness that is probably appealing. I find it so.
Wonder Woman and Black Cnary look silly, but the other designs are ok!
Wonder Woman and Black Cnary look silly, but the other designs are ok!
Yeah, her pants didn’t work. Wrong color. Khakis don’t go with the rest of the uniform.
As a male I do have to admit, I like the more covered look for these super heroines It adds an element of practicality to their outfit.
This is a part of the ever-growing feminist fascism movement and should be ignored imo.
And can you imagine doing martial arts in high heels? I’m also a martial artist, and when I read comics and watch movies and these women are running around and kicking ass in 5″ heels it just makes me laugh.
Man, that Wonder Woman redesign is terrible.
I’d say the ones this changed my perspective on (with regards to how they’re characterized) would probably be Vampirella and Powergirl. Possibly because most of my knowledge of them isn’t a lot of direct contact. For example, I’ve not read a Powergirl comic, so I only know her from internet memes as the “alt-world supergirl with a boob window”.
Overall, I like the new look for all these characters and really like Psylocke’s new outfit. I’ve always like Psylocke as a character and she looks like she’d be more effective with what looks like the light armor on her. (since the armor still looks plenty flexible, or at least wouldn’t prevent movement as I recall her post-hand fighting style to include)
I think they look great. Nice designs.
The last ones are a huge improvement! Vampirlella, Psylocke, Elektra and Zatanna look much more deadly serious.
Zee has almost a cool hipster-chick vibe which is hot right now.
I might make PG’s pants white but it’s better than her New52 outfit.
Supergirl’s leggings should be a different color. Maybe red with blue boots? Or make the skirt red and the leggings blue? Also better than her New52 outfit
Maybe Canary should have tighter pants? Like motorcycle leathers. She has actually worn similar clothing in the past.
Wonder Woman looks odd though. Like modern pants under ancient armor? I would have gone with blue leggings but the rest of the armor looks cool on Diana. Again, better than the New52 version.
There are some fully clothed heroines like the bats: Batwoman and Batgirl for instance. Some of the X-Women too but I agree it’s a fraction compared to the men.
Isn’t that exactly the point, though? I understand that these weren’t specifically designed in order to titillate the average young male – but the above demonstrates that even these still do, perhaps even moreso for many.
( Now, granted, they’re all still with a certain build, ample bosoms, and everything else a young male might find appealing besides showing skin, but then the artist would have to consider whether A cup ‘plus size’ superheroines would still have the same non-sexual draw to the character. )
So if drawing them this way doesn’t really change the hubba-hubba effect, then what does that actually mean? That society (or biology as some would argue) is essentially beyond repair in these matters? That it’s not broken to begin with? That they might as well draw them showing lots of skin?
I think that is exactly the point of these drawings, and is in fact one of the opening sentences in this article; This isn’t about covering them up, it’s figuring out how you would cover them up, and how that changes perception – if at all.
I think it is more believable when they are fully covered. Yet, if you think about it, superheroes engage themselves in serious physical activities. You wouldn’t wear baggy or loose fitted clothes for this. I would think you would see them wearing form fitted athletic wear. Like what you would see Olympic athletes wearing. Spandex, neoprene, that kind of stuff.
As a woman and a comics fan I absolutely LOVE these. Strong, empowered women instead of blow-up dolls. These are really superheroes! Thank you for doing this!
Yeah, Rogue is fully clothed but she’s still wearing skin tight clothing and people -still- have a problem with that. If clothing affects your suspension of disbelief that heavily then comic books probably aren’t your genre. I mean, honestly, if that’s the way you look at comic books how can you get past the low functionality and common sense of Cyclops’s glasses and clothes that change colour and only grow in convenient places like the Hulk’s pants.
I never said that was the point. I have just commented on people who feel that a comics content can be judged by the clothing the heroes wear/ No where did I ever say that there’s no place for different interpretations on heroes. I never said that jeans and t-shirts, or for sweaters and running shoes aren’t welcomed. I never stated that these things wouldn’t be attractive.
I do enjoy the stories. I’ve stated that many times. I’m not saying that as a woman I have universally been told I can’t. And I don’t need anyone’s (male or female) permission to like anything.
There’s room for multiple interpretations in this world. Yes, the extremes can be bad for the culture. But the sweeping damnation of male artists for spandex is not in my wheelhouse. I do not put a book on the burn list because a woman is wearing what Pyslocke or She-Hulk is. . I don’t know where you got your interpretation of my opinion from but hopefully that clears it up.
wow, these are awesome! I might actually read comics if they drew characters like this. Nothing ruin’s a story faster than stupid skimpy uniforms, I don’t care how bada$$ a person is if I can’t believe that they don’t take themselves seriously enough to wear serious, hell even semi-serious attire.
I never once spoke to the sexual objectification of men in comics. Never.
I haven’t really spoken to sexual objectification at all so it’s quite unfair of you, and anyone else, to assume my standpoint on that situation.
There are no superheroes in the real world. There are no cops, male or female, who wear spandex while walking their beat. Obviously. Women in the real world, do chose to wear them. That is fact. It’s in every day fashion.
A woman can be fully clothed in a comic book and because too much leg is showing or because it’s skin tight it’s judged harshly. People won’t even look into a character because she’s wearing spandex. I’ve only spoken to clothes and the judgments that are placed on them in my comments. Nothing more.
It’s alright if you want to draw them with more clothes, but at least respect their proportions; Vampirella boobs are way bigger sir.
I’m talking about the minimal outfits that aren’t slutty, just scanty.
It’s really a shame that you have to assume that a woman must be being controlled by a man to draw that way. A down right shame. You’re insulting many female artists by accusing them of being misogynistic just because they like the look of a spandexed super hero. I never made any comment to how women are posed in comics. The only comment I made about it, is that I have issues with it. I’m only ever speaking to the costumes.
I think they came out pretty good looking.
If the artist is reading this, I’m interested in hearing your definition of “fully dressed”, because what I see here is “fully covered in menswear-inspired designs with a lot of draping and layering and nothing totally skintight”. I see a lot of pants. If you had covered these ladies with skintight getups, would it still be “fully dressed”?
Lol. Really? Really dude? You still think girls don’t read comics? The eighties called, they want their mentality back. Get with the times, man.
Much better fully dressed! Great outfits!
There’s not a lot of normal clothing in comic books.
No one would really wear any of the things that superheroes wear in their daily lives. It would be silly. You’d be branded as crazy.
The only time normal clothes are presented are when characters are completely out of costume or if we’re referring to secondary characters.
Do you really have that much of a problem with jumpsuits? It seems pretty ridiculous to me.
Seems more like you have an issue with the way women in comics are posed. I have an issue with that too, I’m just not addressing it because that’s not what my argument is about.
A+ on missing the point entirely. We’re all so proud of you.
Women may want to be attractive. But they DON’T want their attractiveness to be viewed as their only relevant trait, and they DON’T want to be reduced to sexual objects without depth or agency. Also, once again, the “beauty standard” portrayed in comics is a MALE fantasy, not a FEMALE fantasy. Cuz let me tell you, women may want to be thin and busty and long-legged, but the women in comics are taken so many miles beyond that ideal that (as someone else on this thread put it) it qualifies as body horror. Do you seriously fucking think that superheroines are drawn with pencil waists, watermelon tits, praying mantis legs and dressed in glorified thongs and pasties to appeal to WOMEN??
Women would LOVE to be idealized in comics. But they would like to be idealized in ways that appeal to THEM, not to men. They want to see female characters who are attractive and confident; who have interesting and complex motivations and believable personalities, who get their own independent storylines, who struggle, and fail, and succeed, and grow.
They do not want to see female characters who are little more than breathing sex toys who are only powerful because it makes them HAWTT!! and who are used only as love interests, motivations, and plot devices for the male superheroes.
I never spoke to the anatomy of the characters. That’s not the issue I was discussing. Nor about the posing of women.
If you want to be mobile and stealthy in an urban environment you don’t wear neon colours.
As a superhero with super strength, why do they need to think so much about protection. If protection was a huge issue in comics EVERYBODY would be wearing some SERIOUS armour. But it’s not, so no one does.
When I went scuba diving my wet suit was pretty skin tight and it kept me really warm. I don’t propose to know what any of the material is made out of. If you have the ability to fly but can’t stand cold temperatures then you should probably limit how high you fly anyway.
If the biggest thing about a comic book is the costumes not being very functional then it’s a fail ENTIRELY across the board.
I never said anything about the revealing nature of Wolverine’s costume because it’s not revealing at all. I just said that if you pick a comic book based on how you relate to their clothes then no one would want to read a book about Wolverine. His costume is stupid. No one should idolize that costume.
To your point though: Rogue heals very quickly too and she has a skin tight outfit. Ms. Marvel heals incredible quick and her outfit has been demonized before as well.
I’m not going to refuse a story because the character is wearing a bag though. That’s the difference.
And if you understood my comment it’s that I’m offended by the notion that as “a favour to women”, a female character can’t be fashionable or she can’t have skin showing. My comment is about being restricted to those kinds of things. As a woman, I should be able to wear what I want without any judgement passed. If someone if thinking that they need to please me as a woman by covering my heroes in many layers and making sure I’m not offended by the mere hint of a skinny jean then I oppose that notion.
Do I oppose “sacks of an outfit” themselves. Not at all. If someone wants to wear it, great. Do I oppose the over thought kind? Yes.
I hope that cleared up your confusion about that statement.
I’ve found them in a few series. If you don’t like the stories then that’s cool. Comics just aren’t your genre, that’s no big deal. I don’t judge anyone on what they chose to spend there time reading. There is resolution in some cases but I don’t need that in every story I read, but that’s me.
I also don’t like all comic book art. Some styles just aren’t for me. That’s cool too.
I’d like to make clear that I never made comment on any of the poses or anatomy of characters in my comments because I’m not raising issue with that. My comments have only ever been on the costumes.
Hmm, seems to me like you’re lumping in costumes with body poses and anatomy choices. Something I didn’t do because I am only speaking about the costumes as this is what the article was about.
For you to assume my position on those issues is very unfair.
Wearing spandex doesn’t make a woman a sexual object. I do think there is some art and some costume choice that go a little too far. I’ve said that already. But if you look at just the costumes. There are a ton that are really not as bad as they are made out to be.
I can get behind these outfits. Given what they have to do as heroines, more is definitely better.
Because of his costume? Sad.
It honestly seems like your issue is more to do with the anatomy and how a woman is posed. I never spoke to that because I have been addressing the clothing as a stand alone do to the fact that this is what the article is about.
Everyone seems to be imposing those issues onto my arguments and making assumptions about my opinions on them based on my feelings about clothing and that wildly unfair.
I feel like there are a lot of very strong, empowering female characters that wear skin tight or bathing suit style clothing: Rogue, Storm, Psylocke, Wonder Woman, Talia Al Ghul etc etc. And it’s great to get lost in a book with them in it.
If you don;’t want to buy it. Don’t buy it.
I never said that everyone has to like all comics. I am saying that to look at a cover and say “I can’t look into this because of the clothing” is stupid. In your comment you at least flipped through to see what was inside. You made opinions based on other things it would seem.
Like it or not, clothes are just clothes.
It’s a social point. I find my husband highly attractive, but he doesn’t do anything special for me to see him as such.
I am listening. And I am respecting what people are saying. Unfortunately people are making assumptions on what my opinions are on body posing and anatomy based off of my opinions on clothing. It seems that there are a few people here who are not listening to what I have to say and instead want to refute everything based off assumptions.
I do not like to objectify women. It’s a very base accusation to make. One that’s insulting but groundless. My comments have only ever been about clothing and nothing more. It’s sad that an opposing opinion has to automatically be demonized and garner insults.
Exactly! It also depends on the form of martial art. For wrestling (the real kind; not the soap opera) or any form of grappling, we wear form-fitting clothes. You don’t want to give your opponent something to grab.
Someone didn’t get Edna’s memo, though: “NO CAPES!” ;)
I know right!? they look badass!!
Red Sonja’s chain mail bikini and Conan’s loin cloth have no similarity.
Only one of them is supposed to be wearing armor.
Guys next please…
I think the wonder woman pants look like business attire, bad-guy skull crackin business!
The only one I didn’t care for is Vampirella. Vampires (ie Dracula) are all about seduction, ie a sex object. Having some cleavage showing would lend to that image. Other than that I like most of it. Not sure about the point coming up on Wonder Women’s armor, maybe a little more rounded.
Bulging muscles are a male power fantasy.
Scantily clad women are a male sexual fantasy.
This is why women complain. And, for reference, just under half of the comic audience is female.
They look so… human. Beautiful.
This is awesome. Someone! Artists and comic makers out there! Take note. Please!
It works great for Zatanna, Elektra, and Black Canary. I kinda feel like Superwomen becomes less of her own person since her costume is now pretty identical to Supermans. I don’t know why I’m “meh” about Wonderwoman. Maybe it’s because its less badass walking into battle armored than half-naked?
This isn’t “fully dressed,” this is “Steampunk Superheroines.” What’s with the tunics and loose cloth? All that extra fabric ready to get caught on stuff during fights.
Almost all of those designs are awful.
I like to see my heroines wearing sexy clothing. I used to draw amateur comics and most of my female characters worn that type of stuff. I’m a woman. I think it’s sexist to assume I must have some underlying reason for doing this.
Wow, my hat is off to this artist and his ability to make a statement so clearly using nothing but his superior design talent. It’s the true power of true ART to be able to make a statement like this and provoke so much thought and discussion. Too bad most of that discussion is a bunch of comic book losers terrified at the prospect of someone shining a light on the failing of the one thing that gives their lives meaning. But hey, it’s comic books, it’s not like mature people are involved, right?
Also, this link isn’t about comic books specifically, but it DOES perfectly define the same sexism issues at play here, and the fanboy’s brainless defense of the indefensible: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/5950-Tropes-vs-MovieBob
more is less probably works for lesbians too. Nice designs but would like to see more black and colored heroines
Don’t like the khaki pants on Wonder Woman, but Elekra & Psylocke look awesome.
Kind of a lot of wide leg pants to fight crime (if they’re not palazzo or flooding too much, one can trip on them) but into it. Also glad there are a few more, er “proportionate” bodies. All about wanting that Vampirella look.
I don’t really have a strong opinion about this, but i am amused by the fact that while looking at the pictures, my 3 year old daughter came up and was like, “oh! super guys!” when I corrected her and told her they were super girls, she proceeded to argue with me that they were, indeed, GUYS.
I think I am the only one who’d prefer both sides stuck fully clothed in tights with their underwear on the outside. Epic equality.
Eloquently stated. Agreed. I read comics. I didn’t read them when I was younger, but now in my early forties with teen and young adult children, I totally enjoy them. I’ll stop reading any comic or book when the women represented are paper cut outs, half naked, paper thin representations. Depth, real beauty, intelligence, cunning, strength… these are the characteristics I would like to see in my female characters… and my male characters, for that matter.
Think Aida Wong from Resident Evil.
Ridiculous.
I like to call them combat bikinis. I for one would not wear something wherein my less well controlled bits might fall out in the middle of performing a round house kick. Yeah?
lessee.. pirate, pirate, cowgirl, snowboarder..
These actually look pretty awesome! I especially love Supergirl and Electra…ok all of them. Though the pants coloring sometimes seems a little off, these look pretty spectacular.
Yea, thats why boxers and MMA fighters all wear baggy clothes…OH WAIT, THAT WOULD BE A HORRID DISADVANTAGE. Technically, the superheros who wear the least are the most prepared for close combat, but I always figure, if your powers cant stop bullets, better armor up.
Hey! Lets all draw Thor and Loki and all the femme and tough guys from every girls manga or slashfic as Ron Swanson…or not, because men don’t get offended when women express themselves.
I love the Zatanna!
Like the idea. Good hustle. Don’t like the design. its like you went over your way to unsexualize them. when you can keep them sexy and cover up. http://www.denimology.com/2012/04/2012_Tyra-Banks-Cirque-Du-Soleils-Michael-Jackson-The-Immortal-World-Tour2_fadedyouthblog-thumb-466×864-90354.jpg woman can be sexy and not show off skin.
This is a refreshing and long-overdue idea.
I’ve always found it sad that the great female superheros are depicted as sex objects. Looking through a huge percentage of comic books these days I feel like I’m looking at a issue of Playboy. In those comics it seems nearly every female is designed to arouse the men reading it. Their boobs, butts, waistlines. This isn’t the female ideal. This is men’s sexual fantasy. Why haven’t feminists and everybody else cried out about this?
I completely agree with all the feminists in the comment section. Male sexuality is creepy and wrong. Men should never find women attractive as it’s inherently degrading to the entire gender. Women who wear anything other than baggy pant suits are all air-headed gender traitors.
That was sarcasm by the way, I realize feminists often have a hard time detecting it.
This is a great idea…in concept. But like some people have said, it’s all in execution for me, and some work a lot better for me than others. The one that stands out as “not working at all” is Wonder Woman and her khakis. Power Girl’s redesign, on the other hand, is actually cool
There are better comic book guides out there though. It sounds like you just got a bad guide book. Because drawing figures should be about anatomical reality. Even if you distort reality a little (like drawing manga characters with huge eyes) you want to start by learning how to draw people as they look naturally. You have to draw from nature and practice that a bunch before you can draw realistically from imagination.
I like the re-designs and the message, but why is Wonder Woman wearing khakis?
Can we have Stargirl, please?
I just worry about freedom of movement-and I’m not sure baggy boots are good in a fight.
Why can’t they just wear a skintight bodystocking that fits like body paint, and is about as revealing. Male superheroes have it…
Covering up aside, I don’t know if Wonder Woman would choose to battle evil in a sensible pair of khakis.
I like how every male commenting on here is mentioning how they’re sexier and totally missing the point. It’s not to be sexy, it’s not to be attractive, nor does it make you any less sexist if you objectify someone who is clothed like that. The showing or not showing of skin isn’t what makes or breaks a character. Why is Wonder Woman wearing pants? Shouldn’t she be in a the gear of a Hoplite if you’re going with the armor design? Zatanna is meant to be a Vegas-show girl, instead, she looks ready to go to a business interview.
It’s not wrong for a woman to show skin any more than it’s wrong for a woman to dress fully clothed. If you’re trying to sound better because you find these more attractive, you’re totally missing the point and still viewing them as sex objects.
Finally. Im kinda of fed up with comis or games where men have huge ass armors protecting every inch of their bodies, and women have the complete opposite. It takes me out of the imersion.
write and draw your own comics if you want to see things the way you want them to be. Stop stiffling other people’s art and creativity to fuel your vapid self-righteousness.
oh. So you are saying that with “the wage gap, increasing restrictions on women’s bodies and access to
basic healthcare, rampant rape and sexual harassment, domestic abuse,
lack of representation in government, social enforcement of impossible
beauty standards, and constant hypersexualization in all mainstream
media” we should
… instead focus on comics, and how what people see in comic books dictates how they act/feel/etc in real life.
Yeah. I’d say the time would be much better spent trying to fix the top problems rather than spending time being sarcastic to nobody important in a topic on what imaginary people wear….
Stay strong you champion of women worldwide.
They all have the same tailor AND the same personal trainer! :)
Maybe you should stop feeling so alienated. Maybe judging something as “for men’s eyes” is making the issue worse.
Unless they have super-balance, or are just incredibly talented.
Thanks for the redesigns! They will now be used in the comics and more designs copyrighted for the corporations and less for the creative indie artists. Huzzah! More money to Conglomco!
Aaaaaaaactually, if your scope of comics was actually about comics and not the MainStream Corporate-Comics then you’d find a whole massive horde of indie comics out there that depict women more naturally. Strangers in paradise anyone? They just don’t survive or get in the limelight because of… gasp.. THE DUMB AUDIENCE.
How does covering your midriff or chest protect your vital organs? I’m pretty sure a shirt won’t offer much more than skin when you’re being shot at. Also, just to let you know, distraction is a powerful weapon. In quite a few situations, female superheros have used sexuality to combat enemies, often without much violence. Hell – thinking of it now, THEY should be the role-models.
I’d rather live in a world where everyone is sexy rather than violent.
So why don’t said females DRAW their own comics how they want instead of legislating demands on others’ creative talents. You do realize there’s a looooooot of time and discipline involved, right? It’s the same when I hear black folks complaining that white creators don’t focus enough on black characters – as if white creators have a secret insight into how black folks feel?
Y reed wen u cen jus kritisize n reespawnd lik a chiuld?
But seriously, don’t hold internet-posters to such a high standard. You’ll always be disappointed.
And unfortunately, with the emergence of female readers, comics now kinda suck. Now there’s little awesomely-drawn panels of action in favor of boring emo panels for fictional characters who aren’t even 100% established – only changed and rebooted every other year for some topical news story and dumb Buffy/Joss Whedon-esque sarcasm dialogue every other line. Thanks for your contribution, women.
It’s called ‘fantasy’. Look it up some time.
Just not feelin’ the Wonder Khakis…
i don’t follow this blog. some kinda reference should’ve been made.
They look much better. :>
I personally Think that For supergirl it could work, And IF I didn’t know the age of Black Canary It “Could” work, however the outfits make the characters look younger and less imposing and robs them of some of the inherent confidence that goes with the form. While I agree with many of you about attire and combat, We are talking about Highly trained or metahuman enabled individuals that aren’t your run of the mill combatants, The characters look childish in many respects. And I feel that while it can be done, Should it? I mean how many WOMEN artists and Writers have taken part in these characters development? I am just saying, If it works don’t break it. Wonder Woman is NOT a sex object. While the “Story” could lend it’s self that way, SHE rarely is seen made to be a “Subordinate” to anyone else, SHE is a leader, She gives orders and demands respect. Same with Powergirl. Until recently they have rarely been shown to have any interest in the men they are paired with. They don’t “Generally” play up on the males in their company. At least not till recently. And now wonder woman is now in a love triangle with superman and bats… WTH!? Don’t break it.
thank you thank you thank you for this!!!
adorable. like “attractive” equates to fighting crime in your goddamn lingerie.
That is really cool art.
With the exception of Wonder Woman, all of these look so awesome! I’d totally wear a costume like that for Halloween.
I’m a feminist, and a lesbian, and I find women attractive. There is nothing wrong with finding someone attractive.
The point is that these characters have long been drawn in an unnaturally objectifying way not because they would actually dress like that as a practical consideration, but specifically to make them fodder for teenage boy fantasies.
It’s creepy and stupid and that’s what the backlash is against. If you can’t manage to brain that one, your problem isn’t what you find attractive, it’s that you can barely manage complex thought.
Could we have a fully dressed Spiderman too?
I’m sorry but .. he kinda looks like he dropped a duce. Not all that cute.
Kinesio Tape
they are still “impossibly proportioned”. Breast are made from fat, if a woman has a low percentage of body fat she will have small breast as well. SCIENCE!
So what’s your excuse for not reading Fables, Saga, Revival, or Fatale? You don’t read comics because you don’t want to.
The problem isn’t so much the costumes but the way female characters are drawn vs male characters. Hacks like greg land even go as far as tracing porn.
That is valid, but to be honest, I’ve never really found it to be a meaningful distinction. Where goeth ridiculous anatomy, so followeth ridiculous clothes. And vice versa. Artists and writers who objectify women in one way are almost certain to objectify them in other ways as well. (of course, this does not apply to artists/writers who take over characters and are required to maintain the pre-existing ridiculous costumes, so long as they are able to transcend the other problematic aspects of those characters).
Also, though I understand that the costumes don’t bother YOU, personally (which is a stance you are perfectly welcome to), you seem to keep dodging the point that others are trying to make, which is that, often (though NOT always), objectifying costumes are a symptom of greater systemic issues with sexism in the comic. It isn’t “stupid” to judge a comic book by a sexist cover because it frequently IS a good indicator of a sexist story within.
If you’ve found a bunch of comics with scantily-clad but otherwise awesome women that you enjoy, more power to you. But there’s a difference between saying, “I love these stories and I refuse to let clothing tarnish my enjoyment of them,” and flat-out denying the existence of any correlation between costuming and overall portrayal of women in comics.
which comics do you read where that scenario is true?
Fair point. I won’t deny that the comics medium as a whole contains some pretty mind-blowing awesomeness alongside its frequent epic suckitude. And fuck yeah, the whole “indie comic” genre has been an AMAZING platform for women’s voices and talents.
BUT.
It is still relevant to critique the “mainstream,” because that is what has the greatest impact on the mainstream culture OUTSIDE of comics. Sexism in the increasingly influential “mainstream comics” world should not be ignored or dismissed simply because non-sexist comics exist in the indie sphere.
As for “indie comics” not surviving in the market due to lack of demand: Capitalism is not a one-way street. People don’t buy stuff because they have absolute preferences that appear fully-formed from the void. Their preferences, and thus their purchases, are influenced by what is available, what is marketed, and what is socially encouraged or condemned. Changing the culture to make it more hospitable to well-written, woman-friendly comics is exactly what we are trying to accomplish by critiquing female portrayal in mainstream comics.
They do. But the toxic culture of sexism in comics has created what I can only describe as an unofficial industry standard that weeds out many talented female and feminist voices. It is not that women and woman-friendly comic artists and writers do not exist – it is that they are not being given jobs. It’s all well and good to say, “just make your own!” but that’s a lot harder than it sounds when “making your own” requires tons of “time and discipline” but doesn’t pay the rent.
Also, I think it’s pretty fair to “legislate demands on others’ creative talents” when those talents are used to create offensive content that promulgates oppression. “IT’S ART!!” can only go so far in shielding someone from criticism.
Also also, if an artist finds it so unbearably taxing to his “creative talent” to create believable women characters (you know, women, those people who make up half the human population?), then maybe – juuuust maybe – he isn’t so “talented” after all.
Regarding “black folks complaining,” you’re quite right, it is a similar situation. And you know what? The cure is similar as well. Hire, promote, and support more black artists. Listen to and heed input from black artists and black readers. It’s really just that simple.
It’s actually a pretty good idea.
Hello, Frivalue, and welcome to Derailing 101! The topic of today’s class will be what I like to call “The Fallacy of the Greater Evil.”
There are three major problems with your argument.
1) I DO spent my time working to fix some of those problems. We are – both individually and as a species – capable of devoting out attentions to more than one activity at a time. It’s untrue, not to mention kind of ridiculous, to suggest that I am INCAPABLE of caring about any of those other problems simply because I’ve spent an hour or two having an argument online about the objectification of women in comics. How would you feel if your favorite hobby was, say, tennis, and someone ran up to you while you were playing bejeweled in a coffee shop and screamed, “YOU’RE PLAYING BEJEWELED! YOU HAVE FREE TIME!! WHY AREN’T YOU PLAYING TENNIS???”
Yeah.
2) Sure, rape culture is probably a bigger problem than objectification in comics. Then again, you could also argue that genocide is a bigger problem than rape culture. And perhaps the looming possibility of another catastrophic global flu pandemic is a bigger problem than genocide. And some would say world hunger is a bigger problem than a flu pandemic. And man-made global climate change is a bigger problem than world hunger. And the Yellowstone supervolcano is a bigger problem than climate change. And the threat of an asteroid or other stellar phenomenon wiping out all life on earth is a bigger problem than the Yellowstone supervolcano. Of course, ultimately, the biggest threat we as a species face is the ultimate heat death of the universe.
Obviously, the only rational choice is for the entire human race to immediately abandon all attempts at social, political, and environmental change and devote ourselves single-mindedly to reversing entropy.
3) The issue of objectification of women in comics does not exist in a vacuum. It is inextricably linked to a much broader social pathology.
In many subtle and not-so-subtle ways, it sends the message that women are unwanted and unvalued in geek culture. It makes comics hostile to women and makes it difficult if not impossible for us to enjoy them. It helps prevent women from getting jobs, achieving recognition, or even gaining basic respect in geekdom. It reinforces the larger cultural trends of objectification and misogyny. It tells us every time we walk into a comic book store that men, even in geekdom, seek to silence our voices and ignore our perspectives.
Sure, these may not be EARTH-SHATTERING CATASTROPHES OF COSMIC IMPORTANCE, but as a woman and a life-long geek, I can tell you that they impact my daily life, and the lives of many others, in significant and concrete ways.
I’m sorry if those aren’t “important” enough for you. If you really think that there is absolutely no value in attempting to rectify any of those things, I’m afraid I just don’t have anything else to say to you.
Hello, Frivalue, and welcome to Derailing 101! The topic of today’s class will be what I like to call “The Fallacy of the Greater Evil.”
There are three major problems with your argument.
1) I DO spent my time working to fix some of those problems. We are – both individually and as a species – capable of devoting out attentions to more than one activity at a time. It’s untrue, not to mention kind of ridiculous, to suggest that I am INCAPABLE of caring about any of those other problems simply because I’ve spent an hour or two having an argument online about the objectification of women in comics. How would you feel if your favorite hobby was, say, tennis, and someone ran up to you while you were playing bejeweled in a coffee shop and screamed, “YOU’RE PLAYING BEJEWELED! YOU HAVE FREE TIME!! WHY AREN’T YOU PLAYING TENNIS???”
Yeah.
2) Sure, rape culture is probably a bigger problem than objectification in comics. Then again, you could also argue that genocide is a bigger problem than rape culture. And perhaps the looming possibility of another catastrophic global flu pandemic is a bigger problem than genocide. And some would say world hunger is a bigger problem than a flu pandemic. And man-made global climate change is a bigger problem than world hunger. And the Yellowstone supervolcano is a bigger problem than climate change. And the threat of an asteroid or other stellar phenomenon wiping out all life on earth is a bigger problem than the Yellowstone supervolcano. Of course, ultimately, the biggest threat we as a species face is the ultimate heat death of the universe.
Obviously, the only rational choice is for the entire human race to immediately abandon all attempts at social, political, and environmental change and devote ourselves single-mindedly to reversing entropy.
3) The issue of objectification of women in comics does not exist in a vacuum. It is inextricably linked to a much broader social pathology.
In many subtle and not-so-subtle ways, it sends the message that women are unwanted and unvalued in geek culture. It makes comics hostile to women and makes it difficult if not impossible for us to enjoy them. It helps prevent women from getting jobs, achieving recognition, or even gaining basic respect in geekdom. It reinforces the larger cultural trends of objectification and misogyny. It tells us every time we walk into a comic book store that men, even in geekdom, seek to silence our voices and ignore our perspectives.
Sure, these may not be EARTH-SHATTERING CATASTROPHES OF COSMIC IMPORTANCE, but as a woman and a life-long geek, I can tell you that they impact my daily life, and the lives of many others, in significant and concrete ways.
I’m sorry if those aren’t “important” enough for you. If you really think that there is absolutely no value in attempting to rectify any of those things, I’m afraid I just don’t have anything else to say to you.
they’re superheroes. they have amazing bodies and are dressed to show them off because part of each and every one of these characters is a superhuman physique — same thing with superheroes, or do the average guys really look like Batman and Superman and run around in tights that show off every single bulging muscle?
if the mere existence and visibility of a drawing of a superheroine in tights or a short skirt with a curvaceous figure is sexist, or if it means I automatically offend women because I prefer to see comics drawn that way, then I’m just destined to be labelled a misogynist and I’ll deal with it. We see complaints about stuff like this all the time, yet when I question why the particular wave of feminism that objects to this stuff seems to have some desire to supress male sexuality or eliminate any and all images of women that are even remotely sexual, I am told I’m way off base. Am I really? If so, then why am I looking at Zatanna dressed like a man and being told I “give it a whirl”?
Not really. A tasteful miniskirt may be more appealing than one that shows nearly everything but I think I can safely speak for nearly all straight men and say that we still prefer the mini to the full length. And any dress of any length at all to a pair of baggy, shapeless pants.
Male sexual attraction begins with what we see. It doesn’t end there but that is where it ALWAYS starts.
You could have just called this “Your favourite superheroine in sensible pants”. How boring.
You honestly think Wonder Woman in tights was only a sexualized object but Wonder Woman in khaki pants — casual Friday attire for God’s sake! — is on her way to self-actualization? Be serious.
So it’s lack of realism in your superheroines that you bemoan? Oh, where do I begin?
But do you spend time berating women for reading them and calling them sexist losers — because that’s what comes the way of boys and men who want to read comics in which Wonder Woman isn’t wearing khakis.
Why is Wonder Woman wearing Khakis? Why not make the pants all blue? But besides that one they were great! I especially like Zatanna’s, Elektra, and Vampirella.
The general drawing style puts me in mind of Japanese cartoon art, but the character design is still distinctive. These are attractive, without provoking crude lechery or adopting incredibly awkward poses. As for superheroic bodies in general, go watch the Olympics. Male or female, the real thing is nothing like the comic books.
The average comic-book artist is the sort of guy for whom the Brazilian Beach Volleyball team took the trouble to label their garments.
I don’t think this “fixes” it, though.
The reality is that people draw and write their fantasies for themselves. If you want comics where the stories, characters and clothing appeal to your female fantasies, you pretty much need to get women writing and drawing the comics. You cannot try to tell men to stop creating their fantasies or to start creating female ones — nor should you — anymore than you should be telling women to create male fantasies. The issue is not that men are presenting their fantasies in the mainstream, it’s that there aren’t very many women getting the same opportunity.
Or maybe she just likes them that way and the message that they send to her is different from the one you receive. Or do you allow for that possibility at all?
great. nice reactions too :).
Now do a series of unattractive career-women in business and politics!
No one really has any right to tell someone else what they should create or how they should create it. I am very much for diversity — in all forms — in creative businesses. But I am very much against telling anyone who is doing the work that their creative vision needs to be changed to placate some demographic. If what’s being done is offensive in the extreme, then the artist should be replaced. “No, you draw it this way” is unacceptable.
I’m kinda amused by the people who think they’re somewhat better than other people for wanting women to cover up, and finding “classiness” sexy. Slut shaming is hardly a new phenomenon really now, is it?
The outfits of these characters are largely an expression of the constant objectification of women – something which these people are still doing. Looking at a fully clothed woman and talking about how hot she is over her other qualities, is actually somewhat more disrespectful than commenting about a woman who is showing her curves off and giving you something to comment on – not that either asked for your esteemed opinion.
Yes, they’re characters. But most of the criticism about the attire of female characters is not to do with what your boner would prefer. Get over it. Nobody is offended by a superhero wearing a short skirt. They’re offended by the upskirt shots. nobody would think anything of powergirl’s costume were she not unrealistically heavily endowed for her size. It’s more disturbing to see an fan image of Rogue of Kitty Pryde being tied up, or contorted by the comic book artist so that you can see both their ass and boobs than it is to have Emma Frost naked pole dancing, because overt sexuality are a part of her actual character. People are usually offended by skimpy outfitted women action heroes because of the functionality of the outfit to protect or aid them. Not because they look “slutty.”
Women generally only care about the women’s outfits because of the lack of diversity, the expectation to be hot in every situation, not being acknowledged as part of the core audience because it’s blatantly catered to straight men, female characters not having personalities aside from their sex appeal, their background stories generally involving some sort of sexual assault or a revenge fantasy and then becoming virtually indestructable “strong woman”, and because we can’t see ourselves in the female characters. You might notice that a lot of female geeks are often not aspiring to be the sort of characters that are represented. Yes, of course you can follow the male characters instead, but that isn’t really the point. In computer games it often pains women to have to choose to be men because they feel somewhat violated by playing in any of the given female bodies and clothes.
Lots of women (and men) find comic book males attractive, and you can find a zillion fan fictions and images to prove it, I’m sure, but the comics don’t cater to that with images of their junk, and they mostly have interesting personalities. Also, I’m pretty sure, a page on re-drawings of their outfits wouldn’t turn into people talking about which looks hotter and how they prefer men to dress.
I really like these designs. The women look badass!
To me, woman and bi, they look more powerful and more attractive. And the outfits are still sexy, just not the kind where you wonder how the hell they keep things from popping out by mistake.
A full-length shirt doesn’t show off your legs though… But what about a tasteful mini skirt compared to tight jeans or leggings?
Baggy, shapeless pants look bad on everyone, except for maybe extremely fat people, but then only because the alternative is worse.
And no, I wouldn’t say that’s ALWAYS where it starts, but it’s definitely that way for the vast majority. There are men (and women) who are demi-sexual, which means that unless they’re in love with a person they don’t feel sexual attraction towards him or her. So yes, it works a bit backwards compared to most, but it’s far from unheard of.
Rule No.1 for Wonder Woman: Those pants are WAY WAY WAY too baggy/loose to be tucked into tall boots. Boot-tucking pants should be more legging/jegging/pegging like, leave them under the pants. But then again, this is coming from a blogger who frequently writes about fashion.
I think these are vast improvements. The looks are more realistic, probably more functional, and are still really cool to look at. The only ones I had issues with were Supergirl, Wonder Woman, and Zatanna. The concepts are good, but they just look frumpy and a few sizes too big. They look like they’re more likely to trip over their own costume than clothesline one of the bad guys. Still, overall, loved it.
Yes, that’s always where it starts. Warm feelings — love, closeness, however you classify them — add depth to sexual attraction. But the initial spark, for men, is always visual. There is no such thing as a demi-sexual man, as you describe, although I have no doubt that there are men who play that role because we are constantly told as men today that many aspects of our normal sexuality (note: normal sexuality does not include raping people) are oppressive and wrong. So of course there are guys who want to pretend they aren’t there hoping they’ll gain more acceptance that way.
As for the fashion question, some guys may prefer tight pants to a tasteful skirt. I think that’s a matter of taste.
I’m not denying or dodging anything. Many other people are assuming my positions on other issues based on my positions on clothing and are therefore getting into a one sided debate over nothing. I never said comics are not sexist. And yes, a costume like Vampirella’s and Elektra’s can go too far in some depictions and there is a line there that I draw as well. No, I don’t get outright offended but I can appreciate someone who would.
I never once said that I didn’t think there was an issue with sexism in comics. There is certain art that I just find ridiculous and gratuitous. But I find it that way for more issues than just the attire and so yes, I think based solely on a costume, a refusal of a story is a little silly. But if you look at that costume, and then look at how she’s posed and what her face looks like and feel like it’s not for you then great. If you strip away anatomy issues and posing concerns, what are you left with? Clothes. That is my angle. I never once denied that there was a correlation between costuming and the overall portrayal of women in comics. This article is about clothing. The article says that the artist is taking no moral stance and is just playing with a change in iconic costume toward the more conservative.
I don’t think spandex is sexist. I do think people can be.
I hope that helps clear some things up a bit.
Actually, they’re very similar–they’re adventuring costumes. Neither is what I would wear if I had their job. I wrote about them here:
http://shetterly.blogspot.com/2013/01/chain-mail-bikinis-context-matters.html
In her first costume, Red Sonja had less exposed flesh than Conan. In the bikini, they’re pretty much equal. And as I noted in the other case, if I had to fight in a chain mail bikini or a fur diaper, I would go with the mail bikini. Though I’d much rather have full-coverage, regardless of my sex, of course. But comic-book logic is not real-life logic, as anyone who likes the look of capes should know–capes are much less practical than a skimpy costume.
You don’t have to turn in your sexuality to be mature. It’s okay to appreciate, even in art. The current DC designs (including PG’s return to her original look) are to me a lot better than these.
Having sexuality be a trait doesn’t mean it’s the only trait, or that they’re viewed as objects. If you think for example Wonder Woman or Power Girl’s standard comic outfits make either of these things the case, I humbly disagree. There’s nothing wrong there
There are female artists who LIKE the sexy outfits and looks, Amanda Conner, Holly Golightly, etc. And while there are always problems and prejudices and the world isn’t perfect, I don’t think we’d all call comics a “toxic culture of sexism”
Sexuality in and of itself is not sexist, and doesn’t need to be villified. People or fictional people showing some skin or wearing tight clothes is not inherently immature or problematic. Nor does including sexuality as part of the mix make it the only part, or objectify. Finding someone sexy does not mean you disrespect them.
The original designs are a lot better than these in my opinion. Long live ART.
Um, speaking of Preacher, a lot of British comics have much more nudity and sexual situations than US comics. Sexy naked people in art, even women, is not somehow immature.
I’m in my 20s and I can enjoy things that are stylized or include sexuality, Hack/Slash, manga, etc, lots of great stuff out there.
As for what a “real” super ninja like Elektra would be doing, that doesn’t sound as good.
Hell yes, well said Lincoln.
Thank God *ONE* person gets it.
Now those outfits would get me into reading Comics again! I use to love them but I could never connect with any of the female characters ’cause they were just not believable because they were over sexualized. I know alot of comics are targeted at a male audience but it would be nice for the girls to have their own Hero to inspire them. It’s pretty impossible for me to see these female characters as Hero material and as having a moral code that can inspire me when their tits are hanging out. :/ Love these outfits, they make you concentrate on the person and not the gender – for me anyways.
Yikes.
Sexuality being part of who you are doesn’t make you an object, and neither does wearing unconservative attire.
Eliminating sexuality for the sake of not offending anyone as you put it, to me, would be highly misguided. Sexuality does not need to be put away in a box somewhere, we can take a character seriously and respect them even with sexuality included in their look and character in general.
well meaning attempts at censorship in the end are still censorship.
logical? how are baggy khaki pants sensible in a battle? psylocke is the exact same character with smaller breasts and sleeves added ,electra was actually in an outfit almost identical during one of her runs,and super girl , whats up with the super baggy boots? o.O
broadbrushing an entire genre is just false , yes there are many comic books in where the females are scantily clad ,there are also many male characters where this is stylisticly acheived ,but im sorry not all comics are done in DC or marvel style , and there are many comic books where the female hero’s arent wearing “battle bikinis”, dont make false statements.
OMG, I know! I hate how women want to be treated like people! It’s disgusting!!!!
Strange, eh?
You are right, it is sad – and there is no logical reason for those super-heroines to run around in skimpy dresses – besides two reasons: 1) It brings in money (which is a bad reason) and 2) “maybe the characters like those” (which is no reason at all, because the characters aren’t real).
You honestly think that that’s my argument?
Cloth isn’t inherently sexist. I’m saying that unnecessarily and illogically sexualized costumes on female characters is a symptom of a much larger problem with sexism in the comics industry, which, in addition to the silly costumes, often treats female characters as “little more than breathing sex toys who are only powerful because it makes them HAWTT!! and who are used only as love interests, motivations, and plot devices for the male superheroes.” (since I keep having to repeat myself, I might as well quote myself)
The costumes aren’t the cause, they’re just the canary in the coal mine.
Please don’t waste our time will willfully ignorant strawman arguments.
@12e786ea39f0d75a51e10c39060cdb88:disqus Nothing wrong at all. I’ve often had trouble taking female super heroes seriously because, well, they’re nearly naked. If I were going out to fight crime, I wouldn’t choose a two piece swim suit as my costume. I mean seriously! It’s up to us comic book fans to make a stink about this. When the target audience rises up, there will be changes!
Hogwash, women are treated like everyone else, wtf does has classic cartoons to do with that?
Hell, women drool over half naked male models and read smut all the time, so what gives?
Modern feminism from the most equalized women on earth makes me sick. They don’t want equality, they want to rid the society from every trace of masculinity.
They can go fudge themselves with their reversed misogynism.
No, it doesn’t always mean that. And in a perfect world, it would NEVER mean that.
But in the imperfect world we live in, it frequently DOES.
I am NOT trying to argue any of the following:
1) That complex and interesting female characters whose sexuality is an important aspect of their character do not exist (Emma Frost being the classic example: she is sexualized because she chooses to be, because that is a major aspect of her personality).
2) That characters like Emma Frost should not exist, or that female characters with strong sexuality are inherently sexist.
3) That there are no great characters have gotten stuck with ridiculously sexualized costumes for no reason, but continue to be great anyway.
4) That we should hate or judge the characters themselves for the decisions their artists and writers make.
But I am trying to argue that there is a CORRELATION between women being drawn in sexualized costumes and women being treated poorly by the narrative. It’s not an absolute rule, but it is a troubling trend.
Those designs look way too manly for female superheroes, they look like in drag. Of course they can be more dressed up but with a better sense of fashion and formss
Yes, that thing that has no resemblance to what I said sure is ridiculous.
Did you think I’d take your word for it? Even if I had so little idea of what I might have said, I can scroll up.
Don’t waste my time dodging your own words.
You’re the one said: “They do not want to see female characters who are little more than breathing sex toys who are only powerful because it makes them HAWTT!! and who are used only as love interests, motivations, and plot devices for the male superheroes.”
Well, the only thing different here is the costumes, so it’s logical to assume that you think putting Wonder Woman in Dockers (I still can’t believe there are people who actually LIKE that one) is going to fix that problem, or at least be a big part of fixing it.
I think it’s ridiculous to suggest that Wonder Woman is typically treated as “little more than a breathing sex toy only powerful because it makes them HAWTT!! and who are used only as love interests, motivations, and plot devices for the male superheroes.”
I have two main problems with holding up these costumes as a solution to portrayal of women in comics. One, I just don’t like most of the costumes. I think they look frumpy and I think they look very much like someone was just trying to cover the characters up, instead of trying to create a true artistic statement. Which brings me to my second, and much larger, concern. If your solution to the portrayal of women is to tell the people who have been drawing and writing them the way you don’t like to do them a way you find less offensive, the result will be bad art, because that person will be following orders, rather than expressing their creative vision. If companies decide they want to change the way female comic heroes are portrayed, my sincere hope is that they bring in people who have a fully rendered vision of what that will mean, rather than trying to make some other artists and writers do things in which they do not believe.
There is such a thing as internalized misogyny, and women are capable of being sexist too. That there are “female artists who like the sexy outfits and looks” does not mean that those outfits and looks are automatically not sexist.
Also, many women in the comics industry (both artists and readers), don’t speak out about sexism because they find it less draining to deal with the constant background noise of sexism than to try to do something about it and face the hostile backlash that inevitably follows. And that is a survival tactic, not an implicit endorsement of sexism.
You may not call it a toxic culture of sexism, but I would, and so would many, many others. And it seems to us that the evidence for it is pretty clear. Google “sexism in comics” and you’ll get thousands and thousands of hits of people documenting and analyzing the phenomenon.
Maybe sexism in comics just isn’t a cause you are able to get all that worked up about. And you know what? That’s cool. Nobody can be emotionally invested in ALL the world’s infinite issues. But can you at least accept that this is something that some people ARE invested in? That it might be a problem, even if that problem doesn’t trouble you personally?
You don’t really have to work with us. All we’re asking is that you not work against us.
Oh c’mon. Rune didn’t say anything about all of those issues. By bringing this up this way, you’re attaching an awful lot to what some fictional characters are wearing.
Dear Mike,
I very much like your drawings. They are lovely.
To those of you who honestly feel as though comic book characters are somehow sexist because of scantily clad female characters, I say “so don’t read them”. I find this to be a subject that has been beaten to death. Who cares?! I sure don’t. If wonder woman can kick ass in her underpants and look smoking hot while doing it…good. It’s make believe for crying out loud. Let it go. Do I look like Wonder Woman? No. Do I find myself to be less of a human being because of it? Nope. But then again, my hubby doesn’t look like Superman, either. Let people dream. If you really have an issue, then do what this man did. Make up your own and quit your crying. I doubt very much if I’m the only one who has long since stopped caring what you think.
I’ve read this three times now and I’m still not sure what you mean. Fine line between objectification and shaming? They’re both negatives. What’s your point?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Nice!
Gee, it couldn’t be that these issues prevent many women (and men, actually) from getting into them, could it?
Not realism, but making sense. Plausibility.
And, even if you don’t care about all that, the double standard.
Sexuality has nothing to do with the point. Sexualization–injecting sexuality where none belongs–is a problem.
Different treatment of men and women is sexist. It is, y’know, the definition.
You equate superhero stories with romance novels?
You do realize that sexuality is actually the POINT of the latter, yes?
Wow, looks like you’re the one not listening. If you’ve read any of the posts you’d never say that her comments objectify women. What I get from it is almost entirely the opposite. It’s people like you that make me stay away from debates in comment sections. When you don’t understand an argument you turn to insults. It seems like you don’t have the intellect to further a discussion with anyone. My condolences.
I apologize for derailing the conversation with excessive sarcasm. My bad. I must have forgotten to take my anti-sass pills that morning.
We seem to have had some miscommunication in the frame of our arguments here. I’ve been talking about sexism in comics more widely, and in that context I stand by what I said.
However you are correct that in the context of these *specific* pieces of art, changing these heroines’ costumes is an interesting thought exercise, but doesn’t really do much on its own to address the sexism that may or may not be present in their individual storylines. Going through a Power Girl comic and gluing construction paper over her boob window obviously isn’t gonna do jack shit to change her character or the narrative content of the story.
But you’ve missed the point if you think this set of eight costume redesigns is supposed to be The Solution to sexism in comics. Or The Solution to sexism in THESE comics. It isn’t even necessarily a recommendation that these particular eight heroines should have different costumes. Lunsford’s protestations aside (“not political” my arse), the purpose of projects like this is to draw attention to problems in the industry and make us question our assumptions about how things are “supposed” to be. This isn’t, “I put pants on Wonder Woman. Sexism solved! Everyone go home!” It’s “Hey guys, I gave Elektra some leggings, and it makes her costume a lot more practical and I think it still looks pretty badass as well. It’s even still recognizable as her costume. So… maybe we should talk about why her canon costume was designed the way it was in the first place, and what that means about how women are perceived by comic artists, and if we should start doing something about that.”
You might not like the aesthetics of these particular designs (personally I think Wonder Woman’s costume is dreadful for numerous reasons, but I would sell an organ on the black market to make Power Girl’s costume the official one because it’s sick as hell), but that doesn’t invalidate the point he’s making, because the point isn’t about these EXACT heroines in these EXACT costumes.
“If companies decide they want to change the way female comic heroes are portrayed, my sincere hope is that they bring in people who have a fully rendered vision of what that will mean”
Yes. YES. YES!! This is EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT. While I don’t think it’s true that current artists should be totally above reproach (which is a whole ‘nother discussion we can have), the real long-term solution to sexism is to HIRE MORE ARTISTS WHO ARE GOOD AT CREATING FEMALE CHARACTERS. Unfortunately, as is evidenced by the glacial rate of progress in this matter, this isn’t really happening. Which is why we are trying to hold the companies accountable! Because if enough fans complain, they will start to realize that they cannot continue on as they have been, and they WILL hire more artists who can write and draw good women.
Is there something wrong with their old costumes?
I don’t think changes to these characters is the ultimate solution to anything. I felt like you were posting as if it would be. That’s why I made my comment.
I like the Elektra costume. I hate the Wonder Woman costume. I don’t know who said it first but no superheroine (or hero) should ever be seen in Dockers. I didn’t care for the rest of the costumes. They just look baggy and unsophisticated in my mind, for the most part. I’m not sure why Powergirl’s look seems popular. To me she looks like a pharmacist in a cape.
But those are matters of fashion preference. The bigger issue here is who does the drawing, why and how. I didn’t say current artists should be above reproach. I said if studios have a problem with them along these lines, they need to be replaced, rather than told to draw something they don’t believe in, or else they will produce bad art. What needs to happen is an influx of people with plans for good female characters, and some of them need to be women.
This is true when someone is creating art for their own personal enjoyment. People can make whatever weird offensive shit they want to on their own time.
But comics are an art that is made for an audience – a large, paying audience – and it makes no sense to claim that the artists are not responsible in any way to that audience. This is especially true in the major long-running superhero comics, where the artists are often working with characters that someone else created a long time ago. This means they have to please a pre-existing audience, or risk losing their job/making those characters unpopular enough to be shuffled off.
Besides, we’re talking about fictional universes that have been running for decades, which have whole stables of constantly-changing artists keeping them going. These artists are told to “draw it this way” ALL THE TIME. That’s the nature of their job. I guess I just can’t understand what is so monstrously arduous and demanding about telling artists to please not dress any more characters in stilettos and thongs when they’re already being told to draw [these] characters interacting with [these other characters] in [this setting] with [this much permitted violence] within [this length constraint] and etc, etc, etc…
Every artist has the *right* to do art any way they want. But if they are trying to make money by selling that art to the public, the public has the right to 1) criticize that art, and 2) not support that artist by not buying their art.
So if comic companies want to dig their heels in and keep bleating “you can’t criticize it!! it’s art!!! we give our artists creative freedom! you can’t tell them what to draw!!” they’re welcome to do so, but they’re going to suffer for it. They’ll lose readers, and they’ll lose money, and once the movie craze that rejuvenated them tapers off, they’ll be right back where they started. And it will only go downhill from there. The DC and Marvel universes may seem immortal now, but they aren’t. If they stagnate, they will become irrelevant, and they will die. That’s just how human culture works.
Okay. It sounds like we’re in agreement on this point, then. Glad we worked that out, I guess…?
I apologize for disrupting the discussion with excessive sarcasm. My bad. I must have forgotten to take my anti-sass pills that morning.
Nothing in this discussion has anything to do with censorship. Censorship is making the dissemination of certain content ILLEGAL. No one is suggesting that dressing imaginary characters in fishnets and thong leotards should be illegal.
The backlash against sexism in comics isn’t censorship. It is people having legitimate complaints about how they are portrayed in a certain type of media, and trying to get that media to respond to their concerns by making it clear that they will not continue to financially support the companies that create it if they refuse to change.
Criticism =/= censorship. Don’t cheapen the term by applying it where it has no relevance.
“Manly”? How on earth are these “manly”? I see at a full half of them wearing some manner of skirt/dress-like article of clothing, and not ONE of them in a costume I can imagine a man in a mainstream comic wearing.
Or do you just mean “none of them are in high heels and I can’t see their thighs or boobs, and I am so used to seeing superheroines dressed like that that I am no longer capable of processing any other type of clothing in comics as female-coded”?
but are not males brought to the same heights? do you not see men with biceps the size of tree trunks, with pecs the size of platters? once again, it goes both ways. also, the idea that you can declare what is a male fantasy or not completely destroys the structure of a debate. we can’t honestly discuss things if you get to write all of the rules.
furthermore, I don’t know how many comic books you have actually read, but there are plenty of female characters, bot unrealistically beautiful and not, who have complex characters, motives, and personalities. the fact that you can’t see past the sexualisation to the underlying material speaks volumes.
I like these better than most of the superheroine’s real outfits.Can we see more?
No, they don’t feel the same to me. The look stronger and more in control.
Sorry, males are the majority of comic book readers. Sure, there are females that read them too, but the comic book industry makes most of its money from males, so from a business standpoint, it makes sense for them to cater to a male mindset’s wants so that they can keep making money. And it is sad that you really view the female characters in comics as useless other than giving male readers a cheap thrill… Yeah, their hero costumes might not be ideal for the business they’re in, but that’s focusing on how the character looks, and not how they act. They are not viewed as “sex toys” because of how they apparently dress (there are some exceptions to that, which is shameful, but the majority are powerful women who don’t need no man). I personally feel that they are plenty powerful and respectable as well. There has been a significant decrease in using female heroes as a plot device when it comes to “oh no, go rescue them!” as they can handle themselves. As characters, they are treated as valuable members of the team no matter how they dress. They might be attractive, but that is DEFINITELY not their only relevant trait. They are useful in a fight against the baddies, as well as able to make smart decisions as it pertains to missions. How they’re dressed shouldn’t really matter as long as they are written as being as useful as the male characters to the onward plot of the comic. As love interests, it only makes sense that those kinds of relationships might develop as people work closely together over a period of time, so don’t make such an issue over that particular piece.
Okay what even? What are you trying to argue here? Are you suggesting that being muscular and powerful isn’t a common male fantasy? That skinny, scantily-clad women with large chests isn’t a common male fantasy? I’m not trying to “write the rules,” I’m just pointing out what I thought were obvious social trends. Usually I have to argue that women aren’t as obsessed with boobs and muscles as men are; I’m not sure I’ve ever had to argue that men like boobs and muscles.
I guess you’ll have to enlighten me. What exactly would you define as the social norm of male fantasies about ideal male and female bodies?
As for the rest of your post: I know there are. And that’s awesome, and I love them.
However there are also plenty of female characters who are NOT complex, and there are plenty who are complex and interesting but who are still used as props for plot development and/or have really creepy and disturbing things happen to them all the time.
I can see great characters just fine. Maybe the problem is that you can’t see the shitty ones because you’re too distracted by their tits.
These designs suck.
Zatanna’s outfit is Tacky and I hate it.
Zatanna’s outfit is Tacky and I hate it.
I like these on a totally different level that doesn’t have that much to do with straight maleness. They are just generally cool, which doesn’t require sexuality or anything. To me it’s not about full clothing being a more subtle form of sexiness. It’s about all the things characters had always had to offer us before we even were old enough to be interested in them sexually.
These sketches remind me of the X-Men animated series. I was about ten or twelve at the time. I remember being really surprised by Storm. I wasn’t used to female characters being cool and powerful foreground characters. At best, I was used to April O’Neil characters who were on the second tier of power, below the protagonist and antagonist and above the general populace, performing important support work while part-timing as the occasional hostage.
I don’t like mainstream media softcore porn. I don’t have a problem with porn being porn. I just don’t like this awkward tango where comics have to hold back enough to avoid the “over 18” rack while being hot enough to be wank fodder while sort of pretending to be telling stories even though everyone knows no one even cares anymore about that, and it’s about setting up excuses for female characters to bend and twist in unnatural ways as much as possible. If DC/Marvel were required to draw all female characters like this at all times, would there be enough storytelling and characterization to make their books worth buying? One would hope so, but the stories I hear about them on the internet make me think probably not, and I don’t care to find out directly. For example, the Starfire reboot that has taken the Princess of Friendship and Caring and replaced her with a “liberated” nympho amnesiac whose main “superpower” is the ability to be non-monogamous in the most apathetic and “edgy” manner possible. A whole generation of Teen Titans viewers is now old enough to buy comics all on their own, and anyone who might have jumped on board almost certainly won’t because they’ve done their best to alienate everyone except for the same shrinking base of wankers they keep pandering to endlessly in a self-reinforcing spiral to oblivion.
Ditto, Allen. The khaki looks weird and out of place. Black would be the least distracting thing there, imo.
I like the electra one
Huh. See, that’s curious, isn’t it? Because fantasy of the sort that superhero comics fall under, in other contexts, is genre with pretty a significant female slant. Female readership of almost all forms of fiction literature is drastically higher than male readership. I have no stats to back this up, but in my purely anecdotal experience women are much more likely to watch and “follow” fiction television shows. Fanfiction, an (unfairly) maligned but incredibly prolific source of media generation, is almost EXCLUSIVELY female, both in its readership and its authorship. And even though action movies are often said to be targeted at men, women and men have been going to the recent superhero blockbusters in, as far as I have been able to find, fairly equal numbers.
Furthermore, superhero comics have a lot of characteristics that are associated with stereotypically “female-oriented” fiction: There’s a strong focus on characters, long-running character arcs, interpersonal relationships, romantic relationships, and emotional and narrative drama. I mean, come on: superhero comics are basically soap operas with superpowers and explosions.
So based on all that, anyone would think that women would LOVE superhero comics. So why don’t they?
Hmmm… perhaps because superhero comics have historically been aggressively targeted at men, and objectified and belittled women. Perhaps because the comic industry and its more repugnant fans not only refuse to change, but refuse to admit that there is even a problem. Perhaps because whenever women pipe up and say, “actually, yeah, we do like comics. maybe you could do some that treat us a little more fairly?” thousands of squalling man-children clutch their plastic comic sleeves and scream “COMICS AREN’T FOR GIRLS!!”
The comic book industry makes most of its money from males because it has never bothered to try and appeal to women (and by appeal I mean “treat them like human beings”). Given the recent cultural upswing of “geek culture,” the comic industry stands to bring in a whole new generation of readers – and it is downright suicidal to actively ignore a full half of that potential readership.
(as for the rest of your post: please see my other posts on this page. most of this has already been discussed elsewhere and I’m too tired to rehash it all again)
WonderWoman and Supergirl are too sloppy and clunky, but the others still show the shape of their bodies without baring skin or looking like hookers. I like them! Very stylish! FINALLY we’re in the 21st century!
Um, yeah, I guess so — about the larger issues.
You do get that you’re arguing against something I’m not really saying though, right? My point is that if artists are doing stuff they don’t really want to do, they will create bad art. If drawing Power Girl now and they hate doing it because of hole in all her tops, then they’re producing lousy stuff. Therefore, to my mind, the way to change what’s produced is to make sure everyone there is drawing something they can really sink their heart and soul into. I get that it’s a business. So what I’m saying is, however a company thinks they want their characters to look, they need to hire artists who naturally want to draw them that way, not try to twist arms — if quality is important.
Finally someone who understands the point that NOT EVERY superheroine has to wear a friggin’ bikini to look sexy or cool… the downside is that it doesn’t quite work in every heroine. I personally didn’t liked the way Zatanna or Black Canary look; they don’t look feninine for some reason while in the other superheroines you made them look strong and feminine at the same time, without exposing too much skin and I like that.
I think maybe one difference is that Batman and Superman get to wear tights, and sometimes female superheroes don’t get to wear tights. If it’s attractive for a male superhero to be covered from neck to toes, why is a different standard applied to female superheroes? That’s more how I read it.
Hmm…
Super Girl: cute and innocent alien girl? Nope, no change there.
Power Girl: Going by DCAU, a woman with an unsure past and looking for her own identity? No change there either.
Wonder Woman: Strong independent woman with a royal heritage? Those pants just reinforce that image. Though something other than brown would be better.
Black Canary: Sultry and seductive, even with pants on. At least those don’t look uncomfortable to ride motorcycles in.
Zatanna: Pants needs to be a little more feminine around the hips, and flare the pants-sleeves a bit more, and we’re talking professional magic-woman.
Elektra: The ninja-garb really ties it all together.
Psylocke: Much more respectable looking, nuff said.
Vampirella: I have to idea, but at least she looks classier.
…Yeah, totes needs more designs like this.
Artist should do Starfire. Lord knows she needs one badly.